1
00:00:12,549 --> 00:00:09,669
[Music]

2
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:12,559
this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

3
00:00:31,109 --> 00:00:14,610
sprague

4
00:00:33,350 --> 00:00:31,119
[Music]

5
00:00:36,150 --> 00:00:33,360
welcome to somewhere in the skies and

6
00:00:38,790 --> 00:00:36,160
today we have a very special interview

7
00:00:42,069 --> 00:00:38,800
with one of the most controversial

8
00:00:43,910 --> 00:00:42,079
people in the ufo field community

9
00:00:46,709 --> 00:00:43,920
whatever you want to call it and

10
00:00:49,190 --> 00:00:46,719
controversial for all the right reasons

11
00:00:51,110 --> 00:00:49,200
which we will definitely talk about so

12
00:00:53,590 --> 00:00:51,120
we have a ton of listener questions for

13
00:00:55,270 --> 00:00:53,600
him and i have a bunch of my own so i'm

14
00:00:58,150 --> 00:00:55,280
not going to waste any more time i am

15
00:00:59,990 --> 00:00:58,160
going to welcome mick west mick how are

16
00:01:02,069 --> 00:01:00,000
you glad to be here i'm doing good glad

17
00:01:03,750 --> 00:01:02,079
to be here thank you for having me

18
00:01:05,910 --> 00:01:03,760
my pleasure i can't believe we haven't

19
00:01:07,830 --> 00:01:05,920
made it happen earlier but i'm happy

20
00:01:10,630 --> 00:01:07,840
we're doing it now because you and i

21
00:01:12,870 --> 00:01:10,640
were talking off-air um it seems that

22
00:01:15,429 --> 00:01:12,880
kind of the ufo

23
00:01:17,670 --> 00:01:15,439
fervor has died down lately and maybe

24
00:01:19,429 --> 00:01:17,680
that was to be expected after this uh

25
00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:19,439
report came out but yeah how do you feel

26
00:01:22,550 --> 00:01:21,360
about what's going on right now in terms

27
00:01:24,149 --> 00:01:22,560
of that

28
00:01:25,990 --> 00:01:24,159
yeah it has died down and it's

29
00:01:28,950 --> 00:01:26,000
interesting i was i was looking a while

30
00:01:31,510 --> 00:01:28,960
ago at the google trend uh for searches

31
00:01:33,109 --> 00:01:31,520
for the ufo and it actually peaked a

32
00:01:35,990 --> 00:01:33,119
little bit before the report came out

33
00:01:37,910 --> 00:01:36,000
with the uh the media coverage uh 60

34
00:01:40,630 --> 00:01:37,920
minutes in particular

35
00:01:43,270 --> 00:01:40,640
uh was was like the kind of high point

36
00:01:45,030 --> 00:01:43,280
and the report itself i think

37
00:01:46,469 --> 00:01:45,040
perhaps let people down and it wasn't

38
00:01:48,310 --> 00:01:46,479
quite as exciting as people were

39
00:01:49,670 --> 00:01:48,320
anticipating and when it did actually

40
00:01:51,510 --> 00:01:49,680
come out

41
00:01:54,710 --> 00:01:51,520
you know it's it's not a nothing burger

42
00:01:56,950 --> 00:01:54,720
but it's it's not the kind of like the

43
00:01:58,709 --> 00:01:56,960
big reveal that everybody was hoping for

44
00:02:00,310 --> 00:01:58,719
so i think there's a little bit of kind

45
00:02:02,709 --> 00:02:00,320
of a rebound effect from the

46
00:02:04,310 --> 00:02:02,719
anticipation and then the the letdown

47
00:02:06,630 --> 00:02:04,320
and people are kind of recalibrating

48
00:02:08,550 --> 00:02:06,640
their expectations and a lot of people

49
00:02:09,910 --> 00:02:08,560
are just i think kind of

50
00:02:11,830 --> 00:02:09,920
lost interest you know the people who

51
00:02:13,750 --> 00:02:11,840
are kind of like the

52
00:02:15,110 --> 00:02:13,760
people who were brought in by the media

53
00:02:16,710 --> 00:02:15,120
attention and they thought that there

54
00:02:19,270 --> 00:02:16,720
was something like amazing about to

55
00:02:21,110 --> 00:02:19,280
happen and then it didn't and uh we're

56
00:02:23,430 --> 00:02:21,120
moving on wait that doesn't really mean

57
00:02:25,030 --> 00:02:23,440
any interesting new videos for me to

58
00:02:26,309 --> 00:02:25,040
look at either so

59
00:02:27,350 --> 00:02:26,319
i've got kind of losing interest for

60
00:02:29,750 --> 00:02:27,360
myself

61
00:02:32,150 --> 00:02:29,760
yeah i know i sent you a couple videos a

62
00:02:34,470 --> 00:02:32,160
few weeks ago i think it was from out in

63
00:02:36,550 --> 00:02:34,480
hawaii which is a case i'm still working

64
00:02:38,309 --> 00:02:36,560
on but um i gotta thank you for taking a

65
00:02:40,150 --> 00:02:38,319
look at those and hopefully i can share

66
00:02:42,150 --> 00:02:40,160
them with the public soon um because i

67
00:02:45,190 --> 00:02:42,160
got your opinion and a few others as

68
00:02:46,949 --> 00:02:45,200
well um and uh that'll be interesting

69
00:02:49,270 --> 00:02:46,959
that's kind of what i wanna talk to you

70
00:02:52,150 --> 00:02:49,280
about today um you know that

71
00:02:55,430 --> 00:02:52,160
anticipation and that expectation that a

72
00:02:59,830 --> 00:02:55,440
lot of the people in the ufo field um

73
00:03:03,430 --> 00:02:59,840
i guess crave or kind of um feed off of

74
00:03:06,309 --> 00:03:03,440
and uh then there's the stark reality to

75
00:03:09,030 --> 00:03:06,319
the topic to the issue to the way the

76
00:03:11,190 --> 00:03:09,040
government is looking at it um so you

77
00:03:13,670 --> 00:03:11,200
did mention the uap report had a little

78
00:03:15,670 --> 00:03:13,680
bit of interesting things in there would

79
00:03:18,470 --> 00:03:15,680
you mind maybe touching on what you

80
00:03:21,030 --> 00:03:18,480
personally found of any interest or

81
00:03:22,949 --> 00:03:21,040
compelling about it

82
00:03:24,789 --> 00:03:22,959
well for me personally uh there was kind

83
00:03:27,830 --> 00:03:24,799
of a funny thing that was interesting

84
00:03:30,229 --> 00:03:27,840
which was that the first

85
00:03:32,070 --> 00:03:30,239
um explanation that they listed you know

86
00:03:34,309 --> 00:03:32,080
they categorize things into five

87
00:03:36,630 --> 00:03:34,319
possible explanations for these these

88
00:03:37,830 --> 00:03:36,640
uaps the first one was birds and

89
00:03:39,509 --> 00:03:37,840
balloons

90
00:03:40,470 --> 00:03:39,519
and other airborne clutter like drones

91
00:03:41,509 --> 00:03:40,480
and things

92
00:03:43,190 --> 00:03:41,519
and i thought that was kind of funny

93
00:03:46,149 --> 00:03:43,200
because people have been mocking me for

94
00:03:48,550 --> 00:03:46,159
suggesting things like balloons and even

95
00:03:50,390 --> 00:03:48,560
birds uh it's become like a bit of a

96
00:03:51,910 --> 00:03:50,400
meme that you know everything is a bird

97
00:03:54,470 --> 00:03:51,920
or a balloon and then along comes the

98
00:03:55,910 --> 00:03:54,480
navy and they're they're like yeah yeah

99
00:03:57,750 --> 00:03:55,920
a lot of this is airborne clutter and

100
00:03:58,869 --> 00:03:57,760
things like like birds balloons and

101
00:04:01,509 --> 00:03:58,879
drones

102
00:04:03,270 --> 00:04:01,519
and i just went yes when that uh that

103
00:04:04,550 --> 00:04:03,280
happened

104
00:04:06,149 --> 00:04:04,560
but

105
00:04:07,750 --> 00:04:06,159
the interesting

106
00:04:08,789 --> 00:04:07,760
things are that

107
00:04:10,630 --> 00:04:08,799
there are

108
00:04:13,030 --> 00:04:10,640
cases that

109
00:04:14,390 --> 00:04:13,040
they haven't been able to identify that

110
00:04:15,750 --> 00:04:14,400
seem

111
00:04:18,949 --> 00:04:15,760
to display

112
00:04:21,430 --> 00:04:18,959
uh unusual movements uh unusual

113
00:04:23,590 --> 00:04:21,440
aerodynamic behavior and they list a

114
00:04:26,230 --> 00:04:23,600
couple of things like uh very high

115
00:04:28,950 --> 00:04:26,240
velocity and very high accelerations now

116
00:04:31,189 --> 00:04:28,960
those things if if they're actually

117
00:04:33,430 --> 00:04:31,199
uh craft in the sky that are doing that

118
00:04:35,110 --> 00:04:33,440
would be very interesting

119
00:04:37,030 --> 00:04:35,120
and uh

120
00:04:39,430 --> 00:04:37,040
i would be very interested to see

121
00:04:40,629 --> 00:04:39,440
what that data actually was

122
00:04:42,310 --> 00:04:40,639
excuse me that led them to that

123
00:04:43,670 --> 00:04:42,320
conclusion that these things you know

124
00:04:45,510 --> 00:04:43,680
might actually exist but you know within

125
00:04:47,110 --> 00:04:45,520
the report itself

126
00:04:49,350 --> 00:04:47,120
they go on to say actually they start

127
00:04:51,350 --> 00:04:49,360
out saying that these things might be

128
00:04:52,950 --> 00:04:51,360
sensor error or there might be observer

129
00:04:56,469 --> 00:04:52,960
misperception

130
00:04:58,150 --> 00:04:56,479
now uh then you've got this kind of

131
00:04:59,990 --> 00:04:58,160
interesting way like that the report

132
00:05:02,550 --> 00:05:00,000
kind of divides things up into divides

133
00:05:04,070 --> 00:05:02,560
things up into different categories

134
00:05:06,150 --> 00:05:04,080
and then it divides them up into

135
00:05:07,350 --> 00:05:06,160
different categories in other ways and

136
00:05:09,110 --> 00:05:07,360
you can't tell which way these

137
00:05:12,469 --> 00:05:09,120
categories overlap

138
00:05:14,550 --> 00:05:12,479
so they will say things like uh a lot of

139
00:05:15,990 --> 00:05:14,560
these sensors a lot of these things were

140
00:05:18,790 --> 00:05:16,000
physical objects because they were

141
00:05:21,749 --> 00:05:18,800
picked up by more than one sensor

142
00:05:23,510 --> 00:05:21,759
and then they say things like uh some of

143
00:05:25,590 --> 00:05:23,520
these

144
00:05:28,310 --> 00:05:25,600
uh displayed

145
00:05:29,350 --> 00:05:28,320
unusual aerodynamic behavior aerodynamic

146
00:05:30,790 --> 00:05:29,360
behavior

147
00:05:33,430 --> 00:05:30,800
but we don't know if the ones that

148
00:05:34,870 --> 00:05:33,440
displayed unusual aerodynamic behavior

149
00:05:36,870 --> 00:05:34,880
were the same ones that were picked up

150
00:05:38,629 --> 00:05:36,880
on multiple sensors

151
00:05:40,710 --> 00:05:38,639
because that's that for me would be the

152
00:05:42,469 --> 00:05:40,720
the interesting thing if you could

153
00:05:45,189 --> 00:05:42,479
actually pick up something that's

154
00:05:47,510 --> 00:05:45,199
displaying unusual aerodynamic behavior

155
00:05:49,110 --> 00:05:47,520
on multiple sensors and that behavior is

156
00:05:50,870 --> 00:05:49,120
detected on multiple sensors like you've

157
00:05:52,550 --> 00:05:50,880
got a video of something that looks like

158
00:05:54,790 --> 00:05:52,560
it's moving really fast

159
00:05:56,790 --> 00:05:54,800
and then you've also got radar data that

160
00:05:59,270 --> 00:05:56,800
shows that thing moving really fast at

161
00:06:01,270 --> 00:05:59,280
the same time and the same location it's

162
00:06:03,909 --> 00:06:01,280
irrefutably the same object

163
00:06:05,590 --> 00:06:03,919
that will be really interesting for me

164
00:06:07,350 --> 00:06:05,600
but we don't know if that actually

165
00:06:09,749 --> 00:06:07,360
happened

166
00:06:11,510 --> 00:06:09,759
right yeah that triangulation of data

167
00:06:14,790 --> 00:06:11,520
from different like you mentioned

168
00:06:16,390 --> 00:06:14,800
whether sensors angles radar what not um

169
00:06:18,950 --> 00:06:16,400
is essential and you're right i think

170
00:06:20,629 --> 00:06:18,960
you know the the one word we can say

171
00:06:22,469 --> 00:06:20,639
about this assessment

172
00:06:25,909 --> 00:06:22,479
preliminary assessment apparently is

173
00:06:28,390 --> 00:06:25,919
that it is ambiguous and you know for a

174
00:06:30,309 --> 00:06:28,400
good reason i think that leaves them off

175
00:06:32,870 --> 00:06:30,319
the hook for a lot of things as well but

176
00:06:34,230 --> 00:06:32,880
that leads to issues in itself which i

177
00:06:36,790 --> 00:06:34,240
do want to talk to you about a little

178
00:06:40,309 --> 00:06:36,800
bit later in terms of um

179
00:06:43,029 --> 00:06:40,319
you know what that ambiguity does to

180
00:06:45,270 --> 00:06:43,039
the public in terms of the world we live

181
00:06:47,590 --> 00:06:45,280
in today with conspiracy theory um but i

182
00:06:50,710 --> 00:06:47,600
am getting ahead of myself mick um for

183
00:06:52,870 --> 00:06:50,720
any of my listeners or viewers who don't

184
00:06:54,150 --> 00:06:52,880
know the mick west origin story you know

185
00:06:55,189 --> 00:06:54,160
the comic book

186
00:06:57,909 --> 00:06:55,199
uh

187
00:06:59,990 --> 00:06:57,919
bitten by the spider sort of thing um

188
00:07:01,589 --> 00:07:00,000
how did you get involved with all this i

189
00:07:04,070 --> 00:07:01,599
know you've talked about it a bunch but

190
00:07:05,990 --> 00:07:04,080
um how do you get involved with this

191
00:07:08,790 --> 00:07:06,000
interested in ufos how did you

192
00:07:11,430 --> 00:07:08,800
eventually create uh metabolic yeah if

193
00:07:14,230 --> 00:07:11,440
you don't mind giving us the uh sure

194
00:07:16,550 --> 00:07:14,240
sure my potted history well um you see

195
00:07:19,270 --> 00:07:16,560
back there i have a skateboard which is

196
00:07:21,430 --> 00:07:19,280
a tony hawk skateboard that was given to

197
00:07:23,189 --> 00:07:21,440
me when we finished the first tony hawk

198
00:07:25,350 --> 00:07:23,199
pro skater video game i was one of the

199
00:07:27,830 --> 00:07:25,360
programmers uh on that was one of the

200
00:07:29,110 --> 00:07:27,840
co-founders in eversoft and so that's my

201
00:07:31,029 --> 00:07:29,120
my background is that i used to be a

202
00:07:31,990 --> 00:07:31,039
video game programmer

203
00:07:34,550 --> 00:07:32,000
and

204
00:07:36,150 --> 00:07:34,560
uh after you know we were fairly

205
00:07:38,390 --> 00:07:36,160
successful with

206
00:07:39,670 --> 00:07:38,400
with doing the tony hawk pro skater

207
00:07:42,150 --> 00:07:39,680
series

208
00:07:43,830 --> 00:07:42,160
i kind of took early retirement from the

209
00:07:45,510 --> 00:07:43,840
video game industry and just started

210
00:07:46,550 --> 00:07:45,520
doing things that i found interesting

211
00:07:47,830 --> 00:07:46,560
and something i've always been

212
00:07:48,950 --> 00:07:47,840
interested in

213
00:07:50,230 --> 00:07:48,960
is um

214
00:07:51,670 --> 00:07:50,240
[Music]

215
00:07:54,070 --> 00:07:51,680
essentially

216
00:07:56,869 --> 00:07:54,080
like things like pseudoscience things

217
00:07:58,550 --> 00:07:56,879
where people are making claims

218
00:08:00,309 --> 00:07:58,560
things like perhaps the supernatural

219
00:08:01,990 --> 00:08:00,319
perhaps things like ufos and things like

220
00:08:03,589 --> 00:08:02,000
conspiracy theories and then

221
00:08:05,830 --> 00:08:03,599
investigating those things and that's

222
00:08:08,710 --> 00:08:05,840
just something i was interested in

223
00:08:11,830 --> 00:08:08,720
as a young person uh back you know in

224
00:08:14,070 --> 00:08:11,840
the 1970s and 1980s

225
00:08:15,830 --> 00:08:14,080
and didn't get much time to indulge that

226
00:08:18,469 --> 00:08:15,840
whilst i was working and kind of when i

227
00:08:20,230 --> 00:08:18,479
i went into semi-retirement i just

228
00:08:23,270 --> 00:08:20,240
started looking at these types of things

229
00:08:25,749 --> 00:08:23,280
i got interested in in looking at the

230
00:08:27,110 --> 00:08:25,759
the chemtrails conspiracy theory which

231
00:08:28,950 --> 00:08:27,120
is a conspiracy theory that the

232
00:08:30,550 --> 00:08:28,960
government is spraying stuff from the

233
00:08:33,029 --> 00:08:30,560
backs of airplanes and that's why we see

234
00:08:35,269 --> 00:08:33,039
these long white trails behind them

235
00:08:37,430 --> 00:08:35,279
and i earned a blog about that that

236
00:08:39,350 --> 00:08:37,440
that's evolved into another site called

237
00:08:41,029 --> 00:08:39,360
metabunk which is just about discussing

238
00:08:43,029 --> 00:08:41,039
all kinds of things like conspiracy

239
00:08:45,829 --> 00:08:43,039
theories and pseudoscience and

240
00:08:47,509 --> 00:08:45,839
investigating sightings in the sky

241
00:08:49,030 --> 00:08:47,519
i did that for a while and i wrote a

242
00:08:50,870 --> 00:08:49,040
book which as you can see on the shelf

243
00:08:52,710 --> 00:08:50,880
there escaping the rabbit hole which is

244
00:08:54,949 --> 00:08:52,720
about how to talk to people who are kind

245
00:08:58,230 --> 00:08:54,959
of trapped in conspiracy theory uh

246
00:08:59,030 --> 00:08:58,240
thinking and how to help them out of it

247
00:09:00,310 --> 00:08:59,040
and

248
00:09:02,550 --> 00:09:00,320
yeah

249
00:09:04,310 --> 00:09:02,560
over the last few years

250
00:09:05,990 --> 00:09:04,320
because like

251
00:09:08,150 --> 00:09:06,000
because of my interest in things like

252
00:09:10,550 --> 00:09:08,160
chemtrails i got quite good at uh

253
00:09:11,350 --> 00:09:10,560
identifying airplanes and identifying

254
00:09:13,190 --> 00:09:11,360
like

255
00:09:14,790 --> 00:09:13,200
what something is in the sky

256
00:09:16,630 --> 00:09:14,800
and it's just kind of a skill that i

257
00:09:18,949 --> 00:09:16,640
developed over time and that naturally

258
00:09:21,910 --> 00:09:18,959
lent itself to ufos and i was never

259
00:09:23,430 --> 00:09:21,920
really a ufo guy until maybe like maybe

260
00:09:25,110 --> 00:09:23,440
three or four years ago about the end of

261
00:09:27,110 --> 00:09:25,120
2017

262
00:09:28,630 --> 00:09:27,120
or occasionally look at them but then i

263
00:09:30,550 --> 00:09:28,640
got interested in

264
00:09:32,389 --> 00:09:30,560
first of all this chilean navy case

265
00:09:34,389 --> 00:09:32,399
which was a kind of a similar case to

266
00:09:36,470 --> 00:09:34,399
the the u.s navy cases where they they

267
00:09:37,990 --> 00:09:36,480
had this video of a strange object

268
00:09:40,630 --> 00:09:38,000
and i helped figure out what this object

269
00:09:42,949 --> 00:09:40,640
actually was and then these these newer

270
00:09:44,550 --> 00:09:42,959
cases came along and they they were

271
00:09:47,030 --> 00:09:44,560
very interesting you know the us navy

272
00:09:49,110 --> 00:09:47,040
cases the the gimbal the go fast and the

273
00:09:51,110 --> 00:09:49,120
nimitz encounter the tic tac

274
00:09:52,389 --> 00:09:51,120
and they were getting a lot of attention

275
00:09:54,470 --> 00:09:52,399
and you've got these interesting little

276
00:09:55,590 --> 00:09:54,480
videos that you can you can analyze and

277
00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:55,600
i've always been someone who's been

278
00:10:00,310 --> 00:09:57,360
really interested

279
00:10:02,069 --> 00:10:00,320
in taking a video or taking a photo and

280
00:10:05,829 --> 00:10:02,079
then trying to figure out

281
00:10:08,790 --> 00:10:05,839
what it actually shows so i use my

282
00:10:10,550 --> 00:10:08,800
the 3d uh geometry skills that i i

283
00:10:12,470 --> 00:10:10,560
learned while doing video game

284
00:10:13,190 --> 00:10:12,480
programming because you have you have to

285
00:10:14,630 --> 00:10:13,200
take

286
00:10:15,670 --> 00:10:14,640
with video game programming you have to

287
00:10:18,550 --> 00:10:15,680
be able to

288
00:10:19,910 --> 00:10:18,560
do the transforms to turn 3d into 2d and

289
00:10:22,550 --> 00:10:19,920
it's just the opposite type of thing

290
00:10:23,750 --> 00:10:22,560
when you're turning a 2d image into a 3d

291
00:10:25,030 --> 00:10:23,760
image

292
00:10:25,990 --> 00:10:25,040
try to figure out where things are in

293
00:10:27,509 --> 00:10:26,000
space

294
00:10:29,110 --> 00:10:27,519
so i just got really interested in doing

295
00:10:29,850 --> 00:10:29,120
that and it's just kind of grown over

296
00:10:30,949 --> 00:10:29,860
the years

297
00:10:33,990 --> 00:10:30,959
[Music]

298
00:10:35,190 --> 00:10:34,000
i think in a way it kind of sucked me in

299
00:10:37,030 --> 00:10:35,200
because

300
00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:37,040
i'm very interested in analyzing these

301
00:10:41,430 --> 00:10:39,760
videos and so i became a little bit well

302
00:10:42,710 --> 00:10:41,440
known as you know the guy who looked at

303
00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:42,720
the videos and came up with his

304
00:10:47,269 --> 00:10:45,360
alternative explanations which i did do

305
00:10:50,230 --> 00:10:47,279
along with other people

306
00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:50,240
and then people ask me questions about

307
00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:52,480
other things and i yeah i initially i

308
00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:53,920
might say i'm not really that interested

309
00:10:57,190 --> 00:10:55,680
i'm not really a ufo guy i'm a video

310
00:10:59,190 --> 00:10:57,200
analyst guy but you know people keep

311
00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:59,200
asking and so i come up with answers and

312
00:11:02,069 --> 00:11:00,480
i i

313
00:11:04,630 --> 00:11:02,079
start talking about the broader issues

314
00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:04,640
like you are ufos aliens and things like

315
00:11:08,150 --> 00:11:05,920
that and

316
00:11:10,389 --> 00:11:08,160
i give my opinions there

317
00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:10,399
and it's just kind of uh yeah it should

318
00:11:14,550 --> 00:11:12,000
become this little interesting hobby

319
00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:14,560
although like like i say oh you said it

320
00:11:18,710 --> 00:11:16,720
start is starting to die down so i'm

321
00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:18,720
actually starting to kind of

322
00:11:24,389 --> 00:11:22,240
um wean myself off ufos to a degree and

323
00:11:25,509 --> 00:11:24,399
get back to the stuff i used to do on

324
00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:25,519
better bank which is looking into

325
00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:27,760
conspiracy theories so i was going to

326
00:11:32,069 --> 00:11:30,480
ask what comes next you know when ufos

327
00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:32,079
go on the shelf because this happens in

328
00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:34,399
the ufo field yeah like this topic goes

329
00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:35,680
you know kind of explodes into the

330
00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:37,440
mainstream when like a big

331
00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:40,079
seminal case happens or maybe a mass ufo

332
00:11:45,030 --> 00:11:42,720
sighting or you know a sound bite in the

333
00:11:47,430 --> 00:11:45,040
new york times or whatnot and then it

334
00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:47,440
kind of goes away and i think you know

335
00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:49,440
this is the longest i would say

336
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:52,000
prolonged amount of time ufos have sort

337
00:11:56,629 --> 00:11:54,480
of been in the mainstream for almost two

338
00:11:58,069 --> 00:11:56,639
years now i mean it's just grown

339
00:12:00,790 --> 00:11:58,079
exponentially in terms of those

340
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:00,800
interested in it and becoming members of

341
00:12:05,509 --> 00:12:03,680
the quote unquote community but um yeah

342
00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:05,519
what what what sort of are you looking

343
00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:08,480
at now um since we're kind of you know

344
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:11,040
taking a little breather with ufos

345
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:13,680
well i think the good news is that uh

346
00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:15,040
people are always going to see strange

347
00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:16,480
things in the sky

348
00:12:20,470 --> 00:12:18,399
right uh just just because of the nature

349
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:20,480
of things yeah you know if if there were

350
00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:22,399
no aliens and there was no magic

351
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:24,160
technology yes assume there isn't for a

352
00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:25,440
second people are still going to see

353
00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:26,639
things in the sky that they don't

354
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:28,880
understand and and they need explaining

355
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:31,279
or investigating or possible things

356
00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:33,360
hypothesize so that that area is still

357
00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:34,800
going to remain

358
00:12:40,870 --> 00:12:38,480
um but these these big stories about

359
00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:40,880
ufos seem to have kind of been uh you

360
00:12:45,829 --> 00:12:43,440
know pushed back or just not pushed back

361
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:45,839
really they just died away uh because

362
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:47,519
nothing new has come along you know we

363
00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:50,639
had before this drip drip drip of of new

364
00:12:53,990 --> 00:12:52,480
videos being released

365
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:54,000
uh but that hasn't happened for a while

366
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:56,720
so maybe it would ramp up but you know

367
00:13:01,430 --> 00:12:59,040
if i'm not looking at ufos

368
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:01,440
uh which yeah i will still look at them

369
00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:03,519
i i look at

370
00:13:06,550 --> 00:13:05,200
conspiracy theories and right now

371
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:06,560
there's a whole bunch of very

372
00:13:10,870 --> 00:13:09,519
significant conspiracy theories that i

373
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:10,880
almost feel bad that i spent time

374
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:13,120
looking at ufos because there is these

375
00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:15,200
other issues that are out there i mean

376
00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:17,920
one in particular is

377
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:20,560
the anti-vaccine conspiracy theory

378
00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:22,399
people thinking that there is some kind

379
00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:25,680
of conspiracy by big pharma to push

380
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:27,360
vaccines even though they don't work and

381
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:29,440
they're dangerous and then some people

382
00:13:34,069 --> 00:13:31,200
go more extreme than that and they think

383
00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:34,079
that you know the vaccines are

384
00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:35,920
deliberately toxic or that they have

385
00:13:40,150 --> 00:13:37,760
little microchips in them or something

386
00:13:41,189 --> 00:13:40,160
like that so or that the coronavirus is

387
00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:41,199
a hoax

388
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:44,240
so i think those are very important um

389
00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:46,160
issues to address

390
00:13:52,389 --> 00:13:49,920
before i was doing um ufos this year i

391
00:13:55,990 --> 00:13:52,399
was very into looking at the

392
00:13:58,150 --> 00:13:56,000
uh election conspiracy fraud like cons

393
00:14:00,389 --> 00:13:58,160
election election fraud uh voter fraud

394
00:14:02,790 --> 00:14:00,399
like conspiracy theories there was lots

395
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:02,800
of people thinking that uh the election

396
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:05,680
was stolen by by biden and that trump

397
00:14:10,710 --> 00:14:08,160
actually legitimately won but yeah

398
00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:10,720
obviously from my perspective he didn't

399
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:12,320
and i think it's very important to kind

400
00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:14,240
of help people

401
00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:16,560
see what the real facts are in that case

402
00:14:18,870 --> 00:14:17,760
as well because i think that's something

403
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:18,880
that's very

404
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:21,360
destructive to you know the very fabric

405
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:23,279
of our country if we have this very

406
00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:25,680
polarized beliefs

407
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:26,880
um

408
00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:27,839
and

409
00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:29,120
it's interesting the the older

410
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:30,800
conspiracy theories

411
00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:33,600
like chemtrails and 911

412
00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:34,399
and

413
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:36,880
uh you know

414
00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:38,560
things that have been around for a long

415
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:40,320
time that i used to think were like this

416
00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:42,320
is what a conspiracy theory is they've

417
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:44,560
almost faded away to nothing when you

418
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:46,480
compare them to these these newer

419
00:14:51,829 --> 00:14:49,839
conspiracy theories like q anon uh the

420
00:14:53,910 --> 00:14:51,839
the anti-vaccine stuff the the voter

421
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:53,920
fraud stuff is all kind of

422
00:14:58,230 --> 00:14:56,079
melded together into one kind of huge

423
00:15:00,949 --> 00:14:58,240
meta conspiracy where the deep state is

424
00:15:02,550 --> 00:15:00,959
trying to impose some kind of communist

425
00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:02,560
rule over the world

426
00:15:07,030 --> 00:15:04,320
and things like

427
00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:07,040
like uh like chemtrails and 911 and and

428
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:09,519
even the ufo thing which is you know

429
00:15:12,389 --> 00:15:10,720
it's been a

430
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:12,399
conspiracy theory

431
00:15:15,990 --> 00:15:14,880
to some degree for for a long time i've

432
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:16,000
i've been

433
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:18,240
you know they they don't seem

434
00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:20,880
very big or important anymore

435
00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:22,959
that's a good point you know i i feel

436
00:15:27,509 --> 00:15:24,880
like there is when i first got involved

437
00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:27,519
with the ufo topic i was 13 and you know

438
00:15:32,949 --> 00:15:30,320
i was on aol in the chat rooms and the

439
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:32,959
forums paranet all that stuff and it

440
00:15:36,629 --> 00:15:34,800
just seemed so innocent back then you

441
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:36,639
know who shot jfk

442
00:15:40,150 --> 00:15:38,639
or you know stuff like that and you're

443
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:40,160
right and you know i've got this

444
00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:42,880
conspiracy board in my background as

445
00:15:47,670 --> 00:15:46,639
kind of a i not i guess a parody of that

446
00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:47,680
whole

447
00:15:52,069 --> 00:15:50,160
idea of connecting everything together

448
00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:52,079
and you're right q anon has become this

449
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:52,880
like

450
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:55,199
amalgamation of everything and it's

451
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:57,920
become like you said real and dangerous

452
00:16:01,829 --> 00:15:59,600
you look at the riots

453
00:16:02,790 --> 00:16:01,839
excuse me you know what happened at the

454
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:02,800
um

455
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:04,560
you know at the uh congress and

456
00:16:08,949 --> 00:16:07,040
everything or the capital excuse me and

457
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:08,959
it's become real and it's become

458
00:16:14,069 --> 00:16:11,279
dangerous and i i'd love to get your

459
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:14,079
thoughts on that um you know the danger

460
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:16,399
of conspiracy theory other than just you

461
00:16:19,509 --> 00:16:17,120
know

462
00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:19,519
in insurrection like these things have

463
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:22,720
drastic consequences for everybody you

464
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:25,199
know yeah very much so and i think the

465
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,120
most immediate consequence that you can

466
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:29,440
see with conspiracy theories is when it

467
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:30,880
comes to health

468
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:32,480
a lot of people

469
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:34,800
are very suspicious of

470
00:16:39,670 --> 00:16:37,759
of conventional healthcare and so they

471
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:39,680
they seek out other

472
00:16:43,509 --> 00:16:41,600
uh forms of healthcare

473
00:16:45,749 --> 00:16:43,519
i people

474
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:45,759
don't get the vaccine the coronavirus

475
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:48,240
vaccine

476
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:50,160
largely because of disinformation that

477
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:52,480
they've read they read things like that

478
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:53,839
more people die

479
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:55,920
because of the vaccine than than die of

480
00:16:59,430 --> 00:16:57,680
coronavirus and they believe these

481
00:17:00,629 --> 00:16:59,440
things because they kind of resonate

482
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:00,639
with something

483
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:03,120
uh in the in their in their minds

484
00:17:06,309 --> 00:17:04,720
because they've become kind of

485
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:06,319
accustomed to

486
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:08,160
distrusting government

487
00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:10,240
and even you can make very extreme case

488
00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:12,079
uh very extreme statements like like

489
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:14,640
that yes claiming that more people die

490
00:17:17,990 --> 00:17:16,640
of the vaccine you know this is people

491
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:18,000
saying you know i got injected with a

492
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:19,919
vaccine and you know you know that

493
00:17:25,029 --> 00:17:21,760
somebody died because they were injected

494
00:17:26,789 --> 00:17:25,039
with a vaccine it's kind of a ridiculous

495
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:26,799
statement but people believe it because

496
00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:28,640
if you've if you started to believe

497
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:31,280
things like um

498
00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:33,039
you know in in the olden days like like

499
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:35,600
they're like 911 being an inside job if

500
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:36,720
you could believe the government could

501
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:39,200
actually do that then it's a very short

502
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:40,799
step you know it's almost like not a

503
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:42,720
step at all to believe that the

504
00:17:46,390 --> 00:17:44,480
government would be

505
00:17:49,270 --> 00:17:46,400
covering up some kind of

506
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:49,280
uh huge i don't know population control

507
00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:51,679
experiment or something like that or

508
00:17:56,789 --> 00:17:53,280
some kind of uh you know they want to

509
00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:56,799
usher us all into covet camps type thing

510
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:58,720
uh and and

511
00:18:02,470 --> 00:18:00,080
then obviously you're not going to get

512
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:02,480
this vaccine because you you think that

513
00:18:05,110 --> 00:18:03,919
the government is trying to poison you

514
00:18:07,510 --> 00:18:05,120
and you end up

515
00:18:09,590 --> 00:18:07,520
yes a bunch of these people

516
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:09,600
uh you've seen like some of the more

517
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:11,919
ardent opponents of the vaccine the

518
00:18:15,909 --> 00:18:14,640
conspiracy theorists are getting covered

519
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:15,919
and dying

520
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,880
and

521
00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:18,240
probably most of them would have been

522
00:18:21,990 --> 00:18:20,640
fine had they got the vaccine

523
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:22,000
so it's

524
00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:24,240
it's it's not just harmful it's killing

525
00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:26,240
people people are dying

526
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:27,760
if you take that

527
00:18:31,750 --> 00:18:30,240
not just of those individual stories

528
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:31,760
you look at the

529
00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:33,280
the entire country and you know the

530
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:34,720
entire world

531
00:18:39,029 --> 00:18:36,720
and you think how many people have been

532
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:39,039
affected by this this belief that

533
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:40,799
vaccines are harmful

534
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:42,400
it's conspiracy theory essentially

535
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:44,160
because it would have to be a conspiracy

536
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:46,559
to cover up you know this thing fauci

537
00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:58,549
the the effect of that

538
00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:00,799
is going to be

539
00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:02,720
maybe something like tens or a hundred

540
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:04,160
thousand deaths

541
00:19:08,789 --> 00:19:06,480
because of essentially a conspiracy

542
00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:08,799
theory and not just you know old people

543
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:10,480
who are going to die in a few years

544
00:19:14,549 --> 00:19:12,640
anyway which you know i wouldn't say

545
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:14,559
it's a good thing because i didn't want

546
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:16,799
my elderly relatives to die years

547
00:19:20,549 --> 00:19:18,799
earlier than they should but younger

548
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:20,559
people as well you know people in the in

549
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:22,480
their 50s and people in their 40s and

550
00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:24,640
even even like teenagers

551
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:25,600
um

552
00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:27,360
they're getting affected by conspiracy

553
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:28,400
theories

554
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:30,320
and they're dying or they're becoming

555
00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:33,200
very ill i mean coronavirus has effects

556
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:34,480
that last

557
00:19:37,909 --> 00:19:35,280
uh

558
00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:37,919
you know still still you know this long

559
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:39,440
covered thing where people have

560
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:41,760
breathing issues or they have brain fog

561
00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:43,360
uh that lasts for a long time and these

562
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:45,520
are very very real effects of conspiracy

563
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:46,880
theories and then of course you've got

564
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:48,400
the broader distrust of government and

565
00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:50,720
then people storming the capital which

566
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:52,960
and the breakdown of of civil society

567
00:19:56,950 --> 00:19:55,440
and the polarization of people into into

568
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:56,960
groups where they they shouted each

569
00:20:00,310 --> 00:19:58,559
other rather than talk with each other

570
00:20:01,430 --> 00:20:00,320
and uh

571
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:01,440
and that's

572
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:03,360
part of the reason why i do what i do is

573
00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:05,760
that i see these harmful effects of

574
00:20:11,350 --> 00:20:09,120
conspiracy theories and i think the more

575
00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:11,360
that can be done to

576
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:13,520
lead people away from disinformation and

577
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:16,240
lead them towards good information the

578
00:20:18,149 --> 00:20:17,280
the better

579
00:20:19,909 --> 00:20:18,159
because

580
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:19,919
these harms are real and we should do

581
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:21,360
something about them

582
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:23,360
right and you know i want to connect

583
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:24,720
that to the

584
00:20:30,710 --> 00:20:28,000
ufo conspiracy in just a sec but um i'd

585
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:30,720
love to ask you this when you first got

586
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:34,240
involved in debunking and um you know

587
00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:35,280
trying to

588
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:36,960
sort of stamp down these things before

589
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:37,840
they

590
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:39,840
spin off their access and out of control

591
00:20:44,630 --> 00:20:41,600
did you ever see

592
00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:44,640
where we are right now happening where

593
00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:47,840
conspiracy theory would become this big

594
00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:50,799
a world leader would not only

595
00:20:56,549 --> 00:20:54,640
um promote some of these but go on to

596
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:56,559
you know inevitably cause a lot of

597
00:20:59,750 --> 00:20:58,240
damage in this country in other

598
00:21:02,549 --> 00:20:59,760
countries there's conspiracy that's

599
00:21:05,029 --> 00:21:02,559
going on right now abiding too but um

600
00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:05,039
yeah did you ever foresee any of this no

601
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:07,440
i i kind of thought it would stay as it

602
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:09,520
was and that these conspiracy theories

603
00:21:12,789 --> 00:21:11,520
would be a fringe that was embraced by

604
00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:12,799
you know five to ten percent of the

605
00:21:18,230 --> 00:21:15,760
population and perhaps more mainstream

606
00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:18,240
conspiracy theories like who shot jfk

607
00:21:22,149 --> 00:21:21,039
would would have more of an adherence

608
00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:22,159
but

609
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:23,919
yeah i think what happened was very

610
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:25,520
surprising to me

611
00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:26,880
something that always happens to me with

612
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:28,559
conspiracy theorists is the first time i

613
00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:29,600
hear about them i think that's

614
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:30,880
ridiculous no one could ever believe

615
00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:31,840
that

616
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:33,600
and then i see more people talking about

617
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:35,600
it i guess you know it's just this it's

618
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:37,120
not gonna nothing nothing much will come

619
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:39,679
of it and it's just so ridiculous i'm

620
00:21:44,710 --> 00:21:41,440
not gonna allow people to talk about it

621
00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:44,720
on on the forum and that's that's the

622
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:46,880
way 911 started for me even though

623
00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:49,360
that's a mainstream conspiracy theory uh

624
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:51,280
i was into chemtrails at the time and i

625
00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:53,679
thought this 911 stuff is just nonsense

626
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:55,280
i don't want to talk about that but

627
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:56,640
eventually i did and then i started

628
00:21:59,510 --> 00:21:58,080
metabolic and then people started

629
00:22:02,390 --> 00:21:59,520
bringing up flat earth and i thought

630
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:02,400
that's just so insanely ridiculous

631
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,480
i'm not going to allow any discussion of

632
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:06,720
flat earth on metabunk and of course now

633
00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:09,039
i have a huge flat earth subforum on

634
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:10,840
there because people kept talking about

635
00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:13,760
it and then q and on comes along and

636
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:16,000
this this ridiculous story about how

637
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:18,000
there's a secret person in government

638
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:21,120
who's leaking information to an army of

639
00:22:25,830 --> 00:22:24,080
anons via h chan

640
00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:25,840
which made no sense whatsoever and it

641
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:27,760
was it just seemed it you know obviously

642
00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:28,960
ridiculous

643
00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:30,480
you know kind of an extension of

644
00:22:34,310 --> 00:22:32,320
pizzagate which was also ridiculous and

645
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:34,320
so i i wasn't really paying much

646
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:35,440
attention

647
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:36,720
and then it became

648
00:22:40,390 --> 00:22:38,799
the biggest and most consequential

649
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:40,400
conspiracy theory

650
00:22:44,789 --> 00:22:42,559
in in modern times

651
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:44,799
it uh it really

652
00:22:49,029 --> 00:22:46,000
took off

653
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:49,039
way beyond my expectation so no

654
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:51,280
i did not expect it

655
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:53,760
um it's unbelievable it really is well i

656
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:56,080
mean zooming in on the ufo

657
00:23:02,070 --> 00:22:58,799
thing um what do you find

658
00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:02,080
most dangerous within the ufo

659
00:23:05,270 --> 00:23:04,080
circle when it comes to conspiracy

660
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:05,280
theory

661
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:09,120
it's it's not i've always said ufo ology

662
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:11,919
and the ufo conspiracy theory is mostly

663
00:23:15,029 --> 00:23:13,039
harmless

664
00:23:17,670 --> 00:23:15,039
uh because it's it's not you know it's

665
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:17,680
not like you believe in ufos and your

666
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:19,280
[Music]

667
00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:21,600
you know whatever whatever you you

668
00:23:26,149 --> 00:23:23,039
start thinking that the government is

669
00:23:27,909 --> 00:23:26,159
trying to poison you uh but i do think

670
00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:27,919
that if you were a believer in the ufo

671
00:23:31,510 --> 00:23:29,760
conspiracy theory

672
00:23:34,230 --> 00:23:31,520
uh which would be that the government is

673
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:34,240
covering up knowledge of ufos

674
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:36,960
it kind of leads to a distrust of the

675
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:38,000
government

676
00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:39,520
so if you look at you know the history

677
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:43,120
of of ufos uh it really then the modern

678
00:23:50,789 --> 00:23:48,080
era of ufos dates back to 1947 uh 1948

679
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:50,799
in 1947 was the first flying saucer

680
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:53,360
incident 1948 was roswell

681
00:23:58,470 --> 00:23:56,400
and here in those years

682
00:24:00,710 --> 00:23:58,480
the ufo scene

683
00:24:01,669 --> 00:24:00,720
was essentially born

684
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:01,679
and

685
00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:04,240
matured almost to the state it is today

686
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:06,080
in the in the in the course of like a

687
00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:08,000
year we immediately got people saying

688
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:09,360
what are these flying sources what is

689
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:10,640
the government trying to hide does the

690
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:12,480
government have evidence of this yeah

691
00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:14,400
what's being covered up

692
00:24:17,269 --> 00:24:15,279
so

693
00:24:19,830 --> 00:24:17,279
if you believe that ufos have been

694
00:24:21,110 --> 00:24:19,840
visiting us since the the 1940s

695
00:24:23,269 --> 00:24:21,120
then the government would have to know

696
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:23,279
about it you know there's no way it can

697
00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:25,200
be just some kind of accident that the

698
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:26,960
the government's just so inept that they

699
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:28,400
they don't have any evidence they would

700
00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:31,039
have to have evidence if if

701
00:24:34,950 --> 00:24:33,440
all these actual incidents were true you

702
00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:34,960
know going back to roswell a lot of

703
00:24:39,269 --> 00:24:36,720
people lots of people think that roswell

704
00:24:41,909 --> 00:24:39,279
actually was a crass a crashed uh

705
00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:41,919
um alien spacecraft or some kind of uh

706
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:43,679
some kind of craft

707
00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:45,200
that they have to be a cover-up which

708
00:24:49,269 --> 00:24:47,520
means that you're essentially

709
00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:49,279
suggesting a theory that involves this

710
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:52,000
big conspiracy of the government

711
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:53,919
and if you believe that

712
00:24:58,950 --> 00:24:56,880
i think it makes it a bit easier for you

713
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:58,960
to believe other conspiracy theories and

714
00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:00,400
conspiracy theories that are more

715
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:02,720
consequential so if you could believe

716
00:25:08,230 --> 00:25:05,279
that the government is hiding

717
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:08,240
uh contact with aliens or evidence of

718
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:10,480
aliens or something along those lines

719
00:25:16,549 --> 00:25:12,880
from you and has been doing it for 70

720
00:25:18,710 --> 00:25:16,559
years then it's fairly easy to believe

721
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:18,720
that the government might be covering up

722
00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:21,120
something like does the vaccine

723
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:23,440
work or you know is coronavirus real or

724
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:27,120
is is global warming uh man-made or not

725
00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:29,200
and is there anything we can do about it

726
00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:31,200
you can start to distrust the government

727
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:32,960
and distrust science

728
00:25:37,029 --> 00:25:35,520
if you believe that there's a huge

729
00:25:39,269 --> 00:25:37,039
conspiracy and not just a huge

730
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:39,279
conspiracy but a huge and very well-run

731
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:41,520
conspiracy where you've got this men in

732
00:25:45,190 --> 00:25:43,360
black coming round and shutting people

733
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:45,200
up and you've got all these

734
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:47,600
um bits of evidence that are hidden away

735
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:49,760
in lockers somewhere and

736
00:25:54,310 --> 00:25:52,000
all these sightings somehow

737
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:54,320
never get leaked out from from from the

738
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:55,360
military

739
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:57,600
uh it just i think

740
00:26:00,470 --> 00:25:59,279
it's not

741
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:00,480
hugely

742
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:03,919
damaging i would say but it does lead a

743
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:06,080
little bit in that direction

744
00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:08,640
yeah it's sort of the gateway for sure

745
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:10,240
but you know the struggle i have with

746
00:26:14,310 --> 00:26:11,760
that mick is um

747
00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:14,320
i personally don't believe the roswell

748
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:15,679
incident was

749
00:26:21,430 --> 00:26:19,120
uh extraterrestrial in origin but what i

750
00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:21,440
do believe is there was definitely a

751
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:23,919
cover-up of some kind sure like that's

752
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:24,880
that's

753
00:26:33,669 --> 00:26:31,279
because one part of me is like i know it

754
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:33,679
wasn't probably aliens at least in my

755
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:36,240
personal research and in investigation

756
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:37,440
and i know a lot of people will

757
00:26:40,870 --> 00:26:38,400
vehemently

758
00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:40,880
disagree with me but um it's hard

759
00:26:45,029 --> 00:26:42,960
because there was a cover-up so then

760
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:45,039
you're like okay maybe it wasn't aliens

761
00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:47,520
maybe the the quintessential modern ufo

762
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:49,679
era that started with roswell wasn't

763
00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:51,679
aliens but does that mean that none of

764
00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:54,080
it is or what do we do there because

765
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:56,159
they covered something up so how do we

766
00:26:59,590 --> 00:26:58,000
sure

767
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:59,600
yeah uh that's the thing though i mean i

768
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:00,880
should i'm not

769
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:03,360
advocating blind trust in the government

770
00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:04,880
i certainly wouldn't say you trust

771
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:07,440
everything that people in power say

772
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:09,760
because people in power will lie to you

773
00:27:13,830 --> 00:27:11,279
and people in power a lot of them are

774
00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:13,840
just doing things for their own personal

775
00:27:16,549 --> 00:27:14,960
gain

776
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:16,559
and you know right now you've got two

777
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:18,880
political parties and they're saying

778
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:21,520
essentially opposite things so

779
00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:24,000
one or both of them is kind of lying to

780
00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:26,000
you when they talk about either present

781
00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:27,679
a certain figure in a certain way or

782
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:29,600
they they make claims about what's going

783
00:27:33,269 --> 00:27:31,679
on at the border or what's going on with

784
00:27:34,389 --> 00:27:33,279
the chronovirus relief program and

785
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:34,399
things like that

786
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:36,480
you know you've got people who

787
00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:38,480
contradict each other

788
00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:39,200
so

789
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:41,600
politicians are kind of lying to you you

790
00:27:45,269 --> 00:27:42,640
maybe you don't know which ones are

791
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:45,279
lying to you but your politicians are

792
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:47,200
generally not your friend people become

793
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:49,520
politicians a lot of them for their own

794
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:51,440
personal reasons some of them are very

795
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:53,440
well meaning some of them are idealistic

796
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:55,440
and they they want to actually do good

797
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:58,799
for the country but uh either yeah

798
00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:00,960
some of them are not or they they become

799
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,960
not and

800
00:28:06,549 --> 00:28:04,799
don't trust them so when you look at

801
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:06,559
something like you know roswell a long

802
00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:07,840
time ago obviously and it's very

803
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:10,240
difficult to get a real handle on what

804
00:28:12,149 --> 00:28:11,279
happened

805
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:12,159
uh

806
00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:15,440
yeah we know that there was

807
00:28:18,789 --> 00:28:17,120
a bunch of different stories that came

808
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:18,799
out at the start so they couldn't all be

809
00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:19,760
true

810
00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:21,039
so what happened there you know was it

811
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:23,120
just mistakes or were people lying and

812
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:26,320
we we know that uh the later story

813
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:28,559
is that uh

814
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:30,000
the first stories were essentially

815
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:31,039
covers

816
00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:33,279
for this project mogul where they had

817
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:35,679
these these microphones on balloons that

818
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:37,120
they were using to listen for for

819
00:28:40,789 --> 00:28:39,520
nuclear explosions in the atmosphere

820
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:40,799
because they wanted to detect when

821
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:42,880
russia was was letting off nuclear bombs

822
00:28:45,990 --> 00:28:44,480
which is a perfectly reasonable thing

823
00:28:47,909 --> 00:28:46,000
for them to do a perfectly reasonable

824
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:47,919
thing for them to keep secret and to

825
00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:50,320
have some kind of cover story for

826
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:52,320
so these things happen there's there's

827
00:28:58,230 --> 00:28:55,200
secrecy and this is this is one of the

828
00:29:00,630 --> 00:28:58,240
one of the big issues in ufology is that

829
00:29:02,549 --> 00:29:00,640
a lot of the questions that people ask

830
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:02,559
are unanswerable because you're asking

831
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:05,120
them about stuff that is hidden behind

832
00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:07,760
the military's wall of secrecy

833
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:09,440
and some other things might get answered

834
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:10,960
after whatever the statute of

835
00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:12,640
limitations is for these these things

836
00:29:15,830 --> 00:29:14,640
like roswell more information came out

837
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:15,840
of it

838
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:18,640
about it but uh here when you ask people

839
00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:21,200
about the nimitz encounter

840
00:29:25,669 --> 00:29:23,440
there's there's data

841
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:25,679
there that we just don't have access to

842
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:27,360
because it's classified because it was

843
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:29,039
recorded on classified systems and we

844
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:30,320
probably never will

845
00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:32,880
by never i mean never in the foreseeable

846
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:34,960
uh you know decade or two

847
00:29:42,789 --> 00:29:39,750
but yeah it does that right does that

848
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:42,799
raise to a level of being a a cover-up

849
00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:44,559
uh or some kind of

850
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:46,000
is it the government lying to you or the

851
00:29:49,669 --> 00:29:47,600
government just like not telling you

852
00:29:51,909 --> 00:29:49,679
stuff because it's secret

853
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:51,919
big differences yeah yeah and that

854
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:54,080
itself is opaque we we don't know the

855
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:56,320
reasons for it and then it allows people

856
00:30:02,310 --> 00:29:58,960
to read into these things like the

857
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:02,320
the lack of detail in the uap report

858
00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:04,240
is that because

859
00:30:08,710 --> 00:30:07,039
there's nothing really interesting there

860
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:08,720
and it's just like

861
00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:11,279
video and radio that was recorded using

862
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:13,039
systems that are classified so they're

863
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:14,720
not going to show them to you or is it

864
00:30:18,710 --> 00:30:16,880
because it shows a close-up of a flying

865
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:18,720
saucer zipping around and diving into

866
00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:20,000
the ocean

867
00:30:24,230 --> 00:30:21,760
it's very easy to imagine it might be

868
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:24,240
one or the other and if your preference

869
00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:26,080
your personal preference is that it is

870
00:30:29,590 --> 00:30:27,679
some kind of ufo zipping around and

871
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:29,600
diving into the ocean

872
00:30:32,710 --> 00:30:31,200
yeah you're probably going to be more

873
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:32,720
likely to believe that's the type of

874
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:34,960
thing that's been covered up whereas my

875
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:36,880
personal experience

876
00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:39,200
with ufo investigations is that things

877
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:40,720
generally do not turn out to be very

878
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:44,159
interesting and i actually anticipate

879
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:45,760
all this secret stuff in the secret

880
00:30:49,510 --> 00:30:48,080
annex that has been hidden from us to be

881
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:49,520
pretty boring stuff you know stuff

882
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:52,399
that's basically like the gimbal video

883
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:54,080
uh probably the most interesting video

884
00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:55,520
that's actually in there i don't really

885
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:56,559
think they've got anything more

886
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:58,480
interesting than that

887
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:00,880
interesting well yeah let's fast forward

888
00:31:05,990 --> 00:31:02,640
up to that because you bring up a good

889
00:31:07,750 --> 00:31:06,000
point of the ambiguity and um in you

890
00:31:10,789 --> 00:31:07,760
know the new york times before the

891
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:10,799
report came out um they went so far as

892
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:12,480
to even change the headline of an

893
00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:15,600
article um to include you know possible

894
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:17,840
we're not ruling out aliens um but then

895
00:31:22,230 --> 00:31:20,640
you've got people like elizondo and even

896
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:22,240
you know uh

897
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:24,720
members of the the national excuse me

898
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:26,880
navy intelligence and whatnot saying

899
00:31:32,470 --> 00:31:30,399
we're almost 100 certain it's not black

900
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:32,480
budget us tech and it's not foreign

901
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:34,799
adversarial tech and of course that

902
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:37,600
leaves a huge gap between what it could

903
00:31:43,909 --> 00:31:40,799
be and what it's not and you know i know

904
00:31:45,509 --> 00:31:43,919
you've spoken to zack saichi um who

905
00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:45,519
actually i you know we had a good

906
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:46,960
conversation of

907
00:31:52,950 --> 00:31:48,000
that's

908
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:52,960
military of the government to kind of

909
00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:55,120
throw that option out there because then

910
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:56,080
you do

911
00:32:00,310 --> 00:31:58,000
get everyone filling in those gaps and

912
00:32:02,310 --> 00:32:00,320
you do fuel the conspiracy because of

913
00:32:03,750 --> 00:32:02,320
the lack of transparency would you agree

914
00:32:05,669 --> 00:32:03,760
with that or yeah what do you think

915
00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:05,679
about it i think i think but that's kind

916
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:07,600
of missing a few things there like when

917
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:08,640
you say

918
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:10,799
uh it's it's not foreign tech and it's

919
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:12,640
not our own secret tech

920
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,760
um like you look at the uap report

921
00:32:20,710 --> 00:32:18,000
and the things they listed

922
00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:20,720
and those were i believe

923
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:23,360
uh items three and four

924
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:26,159
uh items one and two in the list number

925
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:29,360
one was uh airspace clutter things like

926
00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:32,159
birds balloons uh

927
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:33,519
drones

928
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,080
and uh

929
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:38,640
debris like plastic bags they even

930
00:32:41,269 --> 00:32:40,080
listed that that was the first thing

931
00:32:45,509 --> 00:32:41,279
they listed

932
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:45,519
atmospheric effects so things like

933
00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:48,000
inversion layers or ice clouds things

934
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:50,320
causing radar returns to to bounce off

935
00:32:55,029 --> 00:32:52,559
or even visual sightings of little white

936
00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:55,039
dots in the sky and things like that

937
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:57,440
and the third thing they list is

938
00:33:00,789 --> 00:32:58,480
uh

939
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:00,799
i believe u.s technology which might be

940
00:33:05,509 --> 00:33:02,640
three or four kind of u.s technology

941
00:33:07,269 --> 00:33:05,519
like secret programs or maybe spacex

942
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:07,279
testing something something like that

943
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:08,640
and then this then they say they don't

944
00:33:12,389 --> 00:33:10,480
have enough information and they

945
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:12,399
have no evidence that that is the case

946
00:33:17,350 --> 00:33:14,640
then they list foreign adversaries and

947
00:33:19,509 --> 00:33:17,360
they they say even less about that

948
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:19,519
and then the fifth thing they list is

949
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:20,880
other

950
00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:23,440
but people could have framed this as if

951
00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:27,120
the only options are us technology

952
00:33:31,669 --> 00:33:30,320
foreign technology or other

953
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:31,679
when they missed out the first two

954
00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:32,880
things that were listed you know the

955
00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:35,120
first thing was space clutter people

956
00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:36,640
just seeing things like drones and

957
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:38,960
balloons in the air because there's this

958
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:41,519
cluttered airspace the training ranges

959
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:43,440
off off virginia wherever they are

960
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:46,240
exactly uh virginia beach

961
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:48,240
uh they have you know balloons drifting

962
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:49,840
into the air into the airspace and they

963
00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:51,360
think that causes an issue the

964
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:53,600
atmospheric effects maybe there's

965
00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:55,200
there's things we don't understand yet

966
00:33:59,430 --> 00:33:57,360
about the atmosphere that's uh

967
00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:59,440
uh like perhaps some kind of electrical

968
00:34:03,509 --> 00:34:01,120
discharge type thing something you know

969
00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:03,519
ball lightning type thing

970
00:34:07,029 --> 00:34:05,360
uh that that happens

971
00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:07,039
and and these are the first two things

972
00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:08,320
that they listed and i don't think they

973
00:34:11,589 --> 00:34:09,760
listed them just to get them out of the

974
00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:11,599
way i think they listed them first

975
00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:13,919
because those were probably the most

976
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,960
common

977
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:16,800
uh plausible explanations for these

978
00:34:21,109 --> 00:34:19,359
things so it's not just you know three

979
00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:21,119
four and five it's one two three four

980
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:22,960
and five and you've really got to

981
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:25,679
consider the possibility that

982
00:34:28,069 --> 00:34:26,639
most

983
00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:28,079
if not all

984
00:34:33,669 --> 00:34:30,560
of the the sightings

985
00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:33,679
could fall in the first two categories

986
00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:35,520
right yeah that's a good point i think

987
00:34:41,109 --> 00:34:37,520
people tend to forget about those

988
00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:41,119
first two for sure um but again it just

989
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:43,520
it frustrates me because then you know

990
00:34:48,629 --> 00:34:46,159
that most of the ufo community are gonna

991
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:48,639
they always do they go to alien and it's

992
00:34:56,550 --> 00:34:50,720
hard because yeah i

993
00:34:58,069 --> 00:34:56,560
i i'm in the ufo world 24 7. so it's um

994
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:58,079
you know i always keep that door open

995
00:35:02,390 --> 00:34:59,680
that some of it might be

996
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:02,400
e.t tech that's visited us but we have

997
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:04,720
absolutely no definitive evidence that

998
00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:07,119
that's ever occurred and then yeah you

999
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:08,800
have the whole idea of connecting alien

1000
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:11,040
to ufo and that's a whole issue in

1001
00:35:15,030 --> 00:35:12,720
itself

1002
00:35:16,870 --> 00:35:15,040
yeah and yeah the uap report didn't rule

1003
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:16,880
out the possibility of aliens and that

1004
00:35:19,270 --> 00:35:18,240
was what the

1005
00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:19,280
headline

1006
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:23,440
uh in the new york times the first

1007
00:35:29,430 --> 00:35:26,320
headline was something like um uap

1008
00:35:31,349 --> 00:35:29,440
report finds no evidence of aliens

1009
00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:31,359
and they changed it to something else

1010
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:33,839
like uap reports uh has multiple

1011
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:35,920
unidentified craft cannot rule out the

1012
00:35:39,349 --> 00:35:38,240
possibility of aliens

1013
00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:39,359
which

1014
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:40,160
was

1015
00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:41,920
i think almost just like the editors

1016
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:44,560
kind of sexing up the the story they

1017
00:35:47,349 --> 00:35:45,760
mounted the story to have a more

1018
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:47,359
interesting headline it didn't really

1019
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:49,599
change the content of the story

1020
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:50,960
the fact that

1021
00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:53,520
you haven't ruled out aliens is utterly

1022
00:35:57,910 --> 00:35:56,320
meaningless if you see a ufo and it's a

1023
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:57,920
little white dot and it's zipping around

1024
00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:00,000
the sky

1025
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:02,240
if it remains unidentified which

1026
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:04,240
obviously all of these these cases were

1027
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:05,280
these were the ones that were

1028
00:36:09,910 --> 00:36:08,160
unidentified you know the ones that

1029
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:09,920
the cream of the crop the ones that rose

1030
00:36:13,349 --> 00:36:11,040
to the top the ones that were not

1031
00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:13,359
filtered out by being identified if it's

1032
00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:15,440
unidentified it's literally impossible

1033
00:36:18,069 --> 00:36:17,200
to rule out aliens

1034
00:36:21,990 --> 00:36:18,079
how

1035
00:36:24,069 --> 00:36:22,000
so it's kind of a meaningless statement

1036
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:24,079
to say that

1037
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:25,920
we haven't ruled out the possibility of

1038
00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:27,040
aliens

1039
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:28,960
they didn't raise it as a serious

1040
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:30,480
possibility

1041
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:32,480
which i think is significant

1042
00:36:37,270 --> 00:36:34,880
uh i think the reason they didn't raise

1043
00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:37,280
it as a serious possibility is that

1044
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:38,560
there wasn't really anything that

1045
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:41,280
pointed towards it

1046
00:36:43,829 --> 00:36:42,000
we

1047
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:43,839
see things like

1048
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:44,880
these

1049
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:47,520
supposedly fast-moving objects

1050
00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:48,640
they say

1051
00:36:51,910 --> 00:36:50,240
um

1052
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:51,920
they could be

1053
00:36:57,910 --> 00:36:56,000
misperception this is something that

1054
00:36:59,750 --> 00:36:57,920
they say very specifically in the the

1055
00:37:00,710 --> 00:36:59,760
page two of the report the executive

1056
00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:00,720
summary

1057
00:37:05,109 --> 00:37:02,560
they say that it could be sensor error

1058
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:05,119
or spoofing or observer misperception

1059
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:07,200
they get those three things

1060
00:37:14,630 --> 00:37:11,520
and saying those those i think are just

1061
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:14,640
far more likely explanations than aliens

1062
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:17,280
now obviously we can't rule out aliens

1063
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:18,880
uh we can't rule out that we're living

1064
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:20,720
in the matrix and somebody at the higher

1065
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:22,960
level is tweaking with the codes to send

1066
00:37:28,310 --> 00:37:25,280
in ufos from another

1067
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:28,320
uh simulated dimension either

1068
00:37:33,349 --> 00:37:30,800
but you know why do we need to go to

1069
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:33,359
those explanations if there's no actual

1070
00:37:38,310 --> 00:37:36,240
evidence for those that suggest that

1071
00:37:40,710 --> 00:37:38,320
those are the likely things

1072
00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:40,720
is it actually more likely that it's

1073
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:44,000
aliens than the radar not working right

1074
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:45,440
you look at something like the nimitz

1075
00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:48,480
encounter you know what's more likely

1076
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:50,320
if you just take just take the one case

1077
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:52,320
say that uh kevin day

1078
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:54,480
saw something drop from

1079
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,720
28 000 feet to 500 feet in 0.78 seconds

1080
00:38:02,230 --> 00:38:00,480
you know the stories varies a bit but

1081
00:38:05,030 --> 00:38:02,240
that's roughly that thing that's

1082
00:38:08,950 --> 00:38:05,040
something that would be uh impossible

1083
00:38:11,510 --> 00:38:08,960
for any um craft that we know of so it's

1084
00:38:13,349 --> 00:38:11,520
not a current human technology

1085
00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:13,359
so it's either you know

1086
00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:15,200
a number of things it's either

1087
00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:17,040
somebody some human has developed some

1088
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:18,640
amazing technology

1089
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:20,560
or aliens have this uh amazing

1090
00:38:24,710 --> 00:38:22,400
technology come to visitors or you know

1091
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:24,720
it's some kind of dimensional hologram

1092
00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:26,400
or something if you go for the more

1093
00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:29,359
esoteric jack-valet type explanations

1094
00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:31,440
or the radar just wasn't working there

1095
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:32,880
was some kind of bug in the radar that

1096
00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:34,800
was causing these glitches and that's

1097
00:38:37,589 --> 00:38:36,160
what they originally thought they

1098
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:37,599
thought originally that it was this this

1099
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:39,200
bug in the radar but then of course you

1100
00:38:43,349 --> 00:38:41,520
layer on these other things you know

1101
00:38:44,710 --> 00:38:43,359
fraver goes out to look at it and he

1102
00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:44,720
sees something

1103
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:46,960
uh comes back somebody else goes out

1104
00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:48,480
takes a video

1105
00:38:51,430 --> 00:38:50,160
sees something and then the fact that

1106
00:38:52,950 --> 00:38:51,440
you've got all these things happening at

1107
00:38:55,430 --> 00:38:52,960
the same time

1108
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:55,440
people start to think well you know it's

1109
00:38:58,790 --> 00:38:56,880
impossible that could just be a

1110
00:39:01,030 --> 00:38:58,800
coincidence

1111
00:39:02,870 --> 00:39:01,040
but then the question there really is is

1112
00:39:04,710 --> 00:39:02,880
it is it impossible

1113
00:39:05,990 --> 00:39:04,720
is it really that much of a coincidence

1114
00:39:07,990 --> 00:39:06,000
that these things would happen like

1115
00:39:09,190 --> 00:39:08,000
people were getting all worked up about

1116
00:39:11,030 --> 00:39:09,200
uh seeing

1117
00:39:12,710 --> 00:39:11,040
uh ufos

1118
00:39:15,270 --> 00:39:12,720
because the radar has been glitchy for a

1119
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:15,280
few days and they they go out and they

1120
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:17,760
they get one crappy video of it and this

1121
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:19,839
this rather strange sighting of

1122
00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:21,520
something that that fragrant dietrich

1123
00:39:27,430 --> 00:39:24,400
saw is that literally impossible or or

1124
00:39:29,349 --> 00:39:27,440
could it be something a bit more mundane

1125
00:39:31,510 --> 00:39:29,359
uh that perhaps the radar wasn't working

1126
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:31,520
and perhaps he came across some

1127
00:39:35,910 --> 00:39:34,160
uh you know some tow target balloon or

1128
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:35,920
some kind of a some kind of drone that

1129
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:38,240
the they were testing or something else

1130
00:39:42,310 --> 00:39:40,000
was happening you know

1131
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:42,320
we don't need to

1132
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:44,240
say that it has to be

1133
00:39:47,190 --> 00:39:45,760
aliens

1134
00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:47,200
simply because

1135
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:49,680
uh the other explanations seem less

1136
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:51,359
likely i think you know even if you

1137
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:52,800
prefer the aliens thing you've really

1138
00:39:56,310 --> 00:39:54,079
got to keep

1139
00:39:58,069 --> 00:39:56,320
the other explanations on your list as

1140
00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:58,079
possibilities

1141
00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:00,000
which is something i try to do

1142
00:40:04,069 --> 00:40:02,640
yeah say and i know i mean i think you

1143
00:40:07,109 --> 00:40:04,079
know if you consider yourself a

1144
00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:07,119
self-proclaimed ufologist or ufo

1145
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:09,680
investigator like your job is to find a

1146
00:40:13,190 --> 00:40:12,160
conventional prozag explanation not to

1147
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:13,200
prove

1148
00:40:16,630 --> 00:40:14,880
little green men are coming here from

1149
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:16,640
you know zeta reticuli

1150
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:18,560
then you start checking off the boxes

1151
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:20,720
until you get to that it's still an

1152
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:23,520
unknown but that doesn't still mean it's

1153
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:26,000
alien but um mick i did wanna you

1154
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:27,599
touched on something really important

1155
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:30,560
and i saw you tweet this recently um

1156
00:40:35,910 --> 00:40:33,440
because i know there's been a lot of uh

1157
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:35,920
you know anger and um

1158
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:38,400
i guess debate online when

1159
00:40:43,510 --> 00:40:42,000
it comes to uh pilots and uh

1160
00:40:45,870 --> 00:40:43,520
being you know

1161
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:45,880
observability and like you said um

1162
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:48,640
misinterpretation or misidentification

1163
00:40:54,069 --> 00:40:50,240
um and people get really upset because

1164
00:40:56,950 --> 00:40:54,079
we do kind of hold pilots and you know

1165
00:40:59,349 --> 00:40:56,960
people in the military or whatnot um as

1166
00:41:01,190 --> 00:40:59,359
the most trained observers out there and

1167
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:01,200
i do want to read this verbatim so i get

1168
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:03,280
it right um

1169
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:04,720
you said

1170
00:41:09,670 --> 00:41:07,280
uh in the context of observing ufos what

1171
00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:09,680
training do trained observers receive

1172
00:41:13,829 --> 00:41:11,200
what do they think they

1173
00:41:16,309 --> 00:41:13,839
or uh yeah what do they receive what do

1174
00:41:17,910 --> 00:41:16,319
you personally think they should receive

1175
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:17,920
in terms of that and do you think you

1176
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:20,560
know that would help in solving a lot of

1177
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:22,000
these cases

1178
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:23,599
well there the problem here is that

1179
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,880
pilots are trained to recognize uh

1180
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:28,319
things so they're trained to recognize

1181
00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:31,040
things like planes so uh they

1182
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:32,880
they do they do have training for

1183
00:41:36,309 --> 00:41:34,880
recognizing planes

1184
00:41:38,790 --> 00:41:36,319
and judging

1185
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:38,800
what its uh its aspect is you know which

1186
00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:40,560
way it's facing relative to you as he

1187
00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:42,800
says tail on aspect is a side aspect as

1188
00:41:47,190 --> 00:41:45,040
a head-on aspect is it going up is it

1189
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:47,200
going down that type of thing but

1190
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:49,599
they're trying to do that with planes

1191
00:41:53,349 --> 00:41:52,000
i think it'd be very difficult and

1192
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:53,359
not particularly

1193
00:41:58,309 --> 00:41:56,240
useful use of time to train pilots to be

1194
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:58,319
ufo observers

1195
00:42:02,470 --> 00:41:59,920
because

1196
00:42:07,030 --> 00:42:02,480
it's that's not really part of what a

1197
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:07,040
pilot does is look for ufos and uh

1198
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:09,520
record them accurately the majority of

1199
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:11,760
pilots never see a ufo you know all the

1200
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:13,680
pilots i've talked to

1201
00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:16,480
have not had a ufo experience it might

1202
00:42:19,349 --> 00:42:17,599
seem like

1203
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:19,359
there's lots of them but really if you

1204
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:21,040
look at the number of pilots it's it's

1205
00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:22,960
not it's not very many that actually

1206
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:25,119
have these ufo experiences

1207
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:27,200
so you know if

1208
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:30,400
if you know if our primary purpose here

1209
00:42:35,430 --> 00:42:32,960
was to solve this ufo conundrum

1210
00:42:36,870 --> 00:42:35,440
then i would expect pilots to have

1211
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:36,880
courses in

1212
00:42:41,910 --> 00:42:40,480
recording what they saw visually but

1213
00:42:44,309 --> 00:42:41,920
that's kind of a bit silly as well you

1214
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:44,319
know why are we relying upon the pilots

1215
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:46,079
looking at something and then writing

1216
00:42:50,790 --> 00:42:48,160
down what they saw why didn't we

1217
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:50,800
if we if we're going to devote resources

1218
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:52,319
to this why don't we

1219
00:42:55,829 --> 00:42:54,079
get cameras installed

1220
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:55,839
in the cockpit so that we can actually

1221
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:57,200
you know take video of these things the

1222
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:58,400
pilots saw

1223
00:43:02,790 --> 00:43:01,200
uh we often see we hear of these things

1224
00:43:05,109 --> 00:43:02,800
being very close

1225
00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:05,119
there was one account uh i think is kind

1226
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:07,680
of grown in the telling of this uh

1227
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:09,359
this uh

1228
00:43:13,589 --> 00:43:11,440
spherical object that flew between two

1229
00:43:15,430 --> 00:43:13,599
planes and i think it was as close as

1230
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:15,440
like a hundred feet or something now if

1231
00:43:20,309 --> 00:43:18,720
if we had a dash cam in those planes we

1232
00:43:23,349 --> 00:43:20,319
would have good footage

1233
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:23,359
so it's kind of a it's kind of um

1234
00:44:52,550 --> 00:43:24,480
a

1235
00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:52,560
uh

1236
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:54,880
yeah and try to check your assumptions

1237
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:55,920
maybe you're going to assume that it's

1238
00:44:59,670 --> 00:44:58,240
the same size as a hornet uh but perhaps

1239
00:45:01,270 --> 00:44:59,680
it may be a different size so you know

1240
00:45:03,670 --> 00:45:01,280
check that out

1241
00:45:05,589 --> 00:45:03,680
but just go touching back on your first

1242
00:45:08,150 --> 00:45:05,599
point there people get upset

1243
00:45:09,430 --> 00:45:08,160
when i i say perhaps the pilots made a

1244
00:45:11,510 --> 00:45:09,440
mistake

1245
00:45:13,030 --> 00:45:11,520
well you know these pilots are tough

1246
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:13,040
people you know they're men and women

1247
00:45:16,550 --> 00:45:15,040
who go into battle and they're shot at

1248
00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:16,560
and they shoot at other people they're

1249
00:45:20,470 --> 00:45:18,880
tough people they can take it

1250
00:45:22,710 --> 00:45:20,480
i don't think

1251
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:22,720
um

1252
00:45:27,990 --> 00:45:25,440
i don't think they're gonna get

1253
00:45:30,790 --> 00:45:28,000
their feelings hurt by me they should be

1254
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:30,800
able to have a honest discussion about

1255
00:45:35,349 --> 00:45:33,119
whether they made a mistake or not

1256
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:35,359
and i think you know david fraver

1257
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:38,240
discussed this this issue with

1258
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:40,960
lex friedman about a year ago i think

1259
00:45:45,829 --> 00:45:43,599
uh and he didn't seem too upset about it

1260
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:45,839
he's kind of mocked the the idea

1261
00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:48,079
somewhat but he wasn't like upset he

1262
00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:50,400
wasn't he wasn't crying because i'd hurt

1263
00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:51,839
his feelings

1264
00:45:55,990 --> 00:45:54,000
uh i i think

1265
00:45:58,870 --> 00:45:56,000
people are rushing to the defense

1266
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:58,880
of pilots as if i'd

1267
00:46:02,870 --> 00:46:00,880
somehow you know spat on their grave or

1268
00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:02,880
something it's it's nothing like that

1269
00:46:08,470 --> 00:46:06,000
i'm just raising an issue yeah

1270
00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:08,480
could they have made a mistake

1271
00:46:13,030 --> 00:46:10,640
and in some cases i think yes they did

1272
00:46:15,349 --> 00:46:13,040
make a mistake and some fairly specific

1273
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:15,359
cases i'd point out where i think

1274
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:17,280
the mistake actually was like chad

1275
00:46:21,430 --> 00:46:18,720
underwood i think

1276
00:46:23,670 --> 00:46:21,440
uh he i think he lost lock in chad on

1277
00:46:25,750 --> 00:46:23,680
the wood filmed the nimitz tic-tac video

1278
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:25,760
and i think he lost lock on the object

1279
00:46:28,870 --> 00:46:27,040
just because he was flipping around

1280
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:28,880
through the camera modes and then he

1281
00:46:31,990 --> 00:46:30,640
didn't regain it because he didn't zoom

1282
00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:32,000
out at the end and i think he just

1283
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:33,920
basically messed up

1284
00:46:37,270 --> 00:46:35,040
there

1285
00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:37,280
uh but you know people will start saying

1286
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:39,520
that i'm i don't know

1287
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:41,680
is this this terrible insult but no i

1288
00:46:46,309 --> 00:46:44,000
just think that's what happened and

1289
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:46,319
if you disagree with me then then that's

1290
00:46:51,510 --> 00:46:49,040
fine but what am i going to do like

1291
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:51,520
just defaults to believing every single

1292
00:46:54,390 --> 00:46:53,040
thing a pilot says but just because

1293
00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:54,400
they're a pilot and i might hurt their

1294
00:46:58,790 --> 00:46:56,560
feelings no hurt feelings have no place

1295
00:47:00,390 --> 00:46:58,800
in this discussion let's just

1296
00:47:02,069 --> 00:47:00,400
focus on the facts and try to figure out

1297
00:47:04,230 --> 00:47:02,079
what those facts are

1298
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,240
i i understand that facts don't care

1299
00:47:09,270 --> 00:47:06,480
about feelings they never have never

1300
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:09,280
will um and you know i i appreciate that

1301
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:10,960
you would take the time to speak to

1302
00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:13,200
people like alex dietrich and actually

1303
00:47:18,150 --> 00:47:15,920
have a conversation um and i know that's

1304
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:18,160
kind of kind of my my last personal

1305
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:20,240
question for you mick um before we do

1306
00:47:24,950 --> 00:47:21,760
some listener questions if you don't

1307
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:24,960
mind um

1308
00:47:29,030 --> 00:47:27,119
dave felch chris leto these guys who

1309
00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:29,040
have been making these videos lately

1310
00:47:33,109 --> 00:47:31,440
talking about you know how

1311
00:47:35,750 --> 00:47:33,119
how you're wrong about this or that or

1312
00:47:37,589 --> 00:47:35,760
you weren't there like this is this is

1313
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:37,599
that's ufology basically you weren't

1314
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:39,440
there when it happened you can't tell me

1315
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:41,920
what i saw or what i experienced and i

1316
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:44,319
respect that like no i wasn't i wasn't

1317
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:46,800
there i can't say you weren't you know

1318
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:48,000
that you

1319
00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:50,160
know there's aliens living in a cave in

1320
00:47:54,790 --> 00:47:52,160
the mojave desert like i wasn't there

1321
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:54,800
when you first saw him or this or that

1322
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:57,599
so it makes sense i get the whole you

1323
00:48:03,030 --> 00:48:00,240
weren't there but um what where do you

1324
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:03,040
lay right now in terms of those who kind

1325
00:48:08,230 --> 00:48:06,160
of respond to what you bring forward on

1326
00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:08,240
youtube or whatnot without even reaching

1327
00:48:12,230 --> 00:48:09,680
out to you

1328
00:48:13,829 --> 00:48:12,240
a lot of them weren't there either

1329
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:13,839
you look at those those people there's

1330
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:16,480
you know dave falch who is a

1331
00:48:22,069 --> 00:48:19,200
is a guy who

1332
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:22,079
repairs flair equipment and he he has

1333
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:23,119
equipment

1334
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:25,119
uh to test and he's spent a lot of time

1335
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:26,720
in the the back parking lot of where he

1336
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:27,920
works i believe

1337
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:30,960
uh taking videos of planes trying to

1338
00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:32,160
disprove

1339
00:48:36,390 --> 00:48:34,079
uh my theories which i think he's

1340
00:48:38,230 --> 00:48:36,400
totally failed to do and just over the

1341
00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:38,240
the years i mean literally years that

1342
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:40,160
i've been interacting with him he

1343
00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:42,720
basically just doesn't understand

1344
00:48:45,910 --> 00:48:44,640
the entire theory that i'm putting

1345
00:48:47,589 --> 00:48:45,920
forward anyway and so it's very

1346
00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:47,599
difficult to talk to him the problem is

1347
00:48:51,510 --> 00:48:49,119
like people think that you know he's an

1348
00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:51,520
expert he's an expert because he he

1349
00:48:56,549 --> 00:48:54,400
works uh for a company that does these

1350
00:48:59,510 --> 00:48:56,559
these these flir systems

1351
00:49:00,950 --> 00:48:59,520
uh and he claims to understand them so

1352
00:49:02,950 --> 00:49:00,960
and because they

1353
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:02,960
they like having experts who disprove

1354
00:49:06,790 --> 00:49:04,800
what i say they believe what he has to

1355
00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:06,800
say but they don't actually understand

1356
00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:07,520
it

1357
00:49:11,829 --> 00:49:08,800
you know

1358
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:11,839
a lot of the problem i have is that

1359
00:49:16,549 --> 00:49:14,720
these issues are complicated

1360
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,559
and so

1361
00:49:19,910 --> 00:49:18,319
i have difficulty explaining them to

1362
00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:19,920
people so people don't understand my

1363
00:49:23,510 --> 00:49:21,520
explanation

1364
00:49:25,829 --> 00:49:23,520
and then someone else comes along and

1365
00:49:27,750 --> 00:49:25,839
they give another explanation and they

1366
00:49:29,910 --> 00:49:27,760
say they are an expert

1367
00:49:31,750 --> 00:49:29,920
but the listeners often don't understand

1368
00:49:33,990 --> 00:49:31,760
that explanation either

1369
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:34,000
uh i i often challenge people to say

1370
00:49:39,670 --> 00:49:36,880
what is dave falch's objection to the

1371
00:49:41,190 --> 00:49:39,680
rotating glare hypothesis

1372
00:49:43,270 --> 00:49:41,200
and when you dig into it he doesn't

1373
00:49:46,549 --> 00:49:43,280
really have one he just he's just saying

1374
00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:46,559
oh you know infrared is is different to

1375
00:49:51,430 --> 00:49:48,240
visible light because it's heat and it's

1376
00:49:53,829 --> 00:49:51,440
not it's not light and they don't use

1377
00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:53,839
lenses they use mirrors so you wouldn't

1378
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:55,599
get glare and you mean narrow field of

1379
00:49:58,710 --> 00:49:57,359
view so you don't get glare yeah a bunch

1380
00:50:00,309 --> 00:49:58,720
of things that

1381
00:50:02,309 --> 00:50:00,319
are not true

1382
00:50:05,109 --> 00:50:02,319
and they're kind of irrelevant and it

1383
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:05,119
says you couldn't rotate the the glare

1384
00:50:08,069 --> 00:50:06,640
with this derotation mechanism so

1385
00:50:09,910 --> 00:50:08,079
there's all these little complicated

1386
00:50:13,349 --> 00:50:09,920
things that you know it sounds good when

1387
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:13,359
an expert comes along but you know he he

1388
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:14,880
he doesn't really understand

1389
00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:16,240
the argument i'm making and this is

1390
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,680
something an issue i've had over and

1391
00:50:21,589 --> 00:50:19,440
over again is that people come along and

1392
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:21,599
this they try to debunk what i'm saying

1393
00:50:25,109 --> 00:50:23,760
without even understanding it

1394
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:25,119
um

1395
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:27,119
uh was lou elizonder when he came on my

1396
00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:29,359
podcast we discussed the rotating

1397
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:32,160
hypothesis he didn't understand it and

1398
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:33,920
he tried to explain to me why why i was

1399
00:50:38,150 --> 00:50:36,240
wrong literally he started out right

1400
00:50:40,150 --> 00:50:38,160
there trying to debunk me it's no mick

1401
00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:40,160
that's not true because you'd have one

1402
00:50:43,430 --> 00:50:41,680
one rotating thing here and another

1403
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:43,440
rotating and they would both rotate

1404
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,800
together

1405
00:50:48,790 --> 00:50:46,800
and so i told him he didn't understand

1406
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:48,800
it and kind of explained it to him

1407
00:50:51,990 --> 00:50:50,480
uh and he did actually listen to me

1408
00:50:54,150 --> 00:50:52,000
which was which was great but a lot of

1409
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:54,160
people won't they will just they'll just

1410
00:50:59,030 --> 00:50:57,040
steadfastly say it's impossible for a

1411
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:59,040
glare to rotate independently of the

1412
00:51:01,589 --> 00:51:00,160
object

1413
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:01,599
or independently of the horizon

1414
00:51:04,069 --> 00:51:02,800
something like that and because they

1415
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:04,079
don't understand what the actual

1416
00:51:08,390 --> 00:51:06,240
argument is because it takes some time

1417
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:08,400
and effort to get into it

1418
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:11,200
i don't think that um david fravor has

1419
00:51:14,230 --> 00:51:12,160
really

1420
00:51:15,589 --> 00:51:14,240
uh looked into a lot of the stuff that

1421
00:51:17,510 --> 00:51:15,599
i've i've done that he just kind of

1422
00:51:19,510 --> 00:51:17,520
dismisses out of hand like the flare one

1423
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:19,520
video zipping off i don't think he's

1424
00:51:23,190 --> 00:51:21,200
really looked into the issue of it

1425
00:51:26,069 --> 00:51:23,200
losing luck i don't know if even chad

1426
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:26,079
underwood has really looked into it in

1427
00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:27,200
great depth

1428
00:51:30,069 --> 00:51:28,160
um

1429
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:30,079
and there was a uh

1430
00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:31,440
another

1431
00:51:35,030 --> 00:51:33,440
uh flair expert who was on jeremy

1432
00:51:37,510 --> 00:51:35,040
corbell's show and he was asked a bunch

1433
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:37,520
of questions that were completely the

1434
00:51:41,670 --> 00:51:39,920
wrong questions to ask

1435
00:51:43,750 --> 00:51:41,680
he was asked does the derotation

1436
00:51:45,910 --> 00:51:43,760
mechanism rotate the glare independently

1437
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:45,920
of the horizon to which the answer is no

1438
00:51:49,829 --> 00:51:47,599
and he correctly answered no and

1439
00:51:52,150 --> 00:51:49,839
explained why and people said oh then

1440
00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:52,160
the mix being debunked but it was the

1441
00:51:55,510 --> 00:51:53,520
wrong question

1442
00:51:57,430 --> 00:51:55,520
so there's a great difficulty here with

1443
00:51:59,510 --> 00:51:57,440
with experts coming in

1444
00:52:02,150 --> 00:51:59,520
and giving their opinion

1445
00:52:03,670 --> 00:52:02,160
without actually understanding what

1446
00:52:04,549 --> 00:52:03,680
the question actually is and what the

1447
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:04,559
issue

1448
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:06,720
actually is and these these things can

1449
00:52:09,349 --> 00:52:08,000
be solved

1450
00:52:12,150 --> 00:52:09,359
by

1451
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:12,160
i i

1452
00:52:17,589 --> 00:52:15,040
sat down and talked to chris lato after

1453
00:52:19,589 --> 00:52:17,599
one of his videos and we kind of got

1454
00:52:21,109 --> 00:52:19,599
into some detail and uh

1455
00:52:22,390 --> 00:52:21,119
i think we resolved a few things but now

1456
00:52:24,390 --> 00:52:22,400
chris has gone off and he's done a whole

1457
00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:24,400
bunch of other videos and he's got

1458
00:52:30,309 --> 00:52:27,200
sucked into the the scu's explanation of

1459
00:52:31,270 --> 00:52:30,319
things and he thinks the scu is amazing

1460
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:31,280
uh

1461
00:52:35,910 --> 00:52:34,319
and you know he's just going off

1462
00:52:38,870 --> 00:52:35,920
saying mix wrong without without talking

1463
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:38,880
to me alpha check another guy on twitter

1464
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:41,920
he's a an egyptologist who's really into

1465
00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:43,920
using the dcs flight simulator and he's

1466
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:46,240
done a bunch of really nice slick videos

1467
00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:47,520
that explain

1468
00:52:52,390 --> 00:52:49,520
the links between

1469
00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:52,400
the the flir system and the uh the radar

1470
00:52:55,750 --> 00:52:53,440
system

1471
00:52:57,750 --> 00:52:55,760
uh the essay page and how they all link

1472
00:52:58,870 --> 00:52:57,760
together and tracking and things like

1473
00:53:01,109 --> 00:52:58,880
that and

1474
00:53:03,030 --> 00:53:01,119
it says that he's debunked me

1475
00:53:05,190 --> 00:53:03,040
uh but you know again he's he's never

1476
00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:05,200
actually talked to me

1477
00:53:08,470 --> 00:53:06,400
i've been trying to talk to him for

1478
00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:08,480
quite a while but you know he he doesn't

1479
00:53:13,510 --> 00:53:10,000
seem like he wants to he just wants to

1480
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:13,520
make a video like uh but so i i think

1481
00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:16,559
all this arguing via video isn't super

1482
00:53:19,990 --> 00:53:18,559
productive it's better to actually have

1483
00:53:22,309 --> 00:53:20,000
a discussion and i'd love to have a

1484
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:22,319
discussion with you say david fraber or

1485
00:53:25,829 --> 00:53:24,079
chad underwood

1486
00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:25,839
but you know they don't want to talk to

1487
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:26,720
me

1488
00:53:30,950 --> 00:53:29,040
yeah it's tough because i understand and

1489
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:30,960
that's what why i respect what you do

1490
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:32,480
nick because you're

1491
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:34,079
you're willing to

1492
00:53:38,710 --> 00:53:36,480
say i want to talk to you about it like

1493
00:53:40,630 --> 00:53:38,720
let's get as much facts and data as we

1494
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:40,640
can and um

1495
00:53:45,270 --> 00:53:42,720
you know it's just their minds are kind

1496
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:45,280
of made up at this point which which

1497
00:53:49,670 --> 00:53:47,920
is kind of um disappointing and you know

1498
00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:49,680
while i mean i don't agree with you on

1499
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:52,240
everything i can respect that you have

1500
00:53:55,750 --> 00:53:53,760
an educated

1501
00:53:58,630 --> 00:53:55,760
opinion on these things

1502
00:54:00,470 --> 00:53:58,640
more than i could ever possibly have so

1503
00:54:02,710 --> 00:54:00,480
i'm gonna be open to that and i think

1504
00:54:05,109 --> 00:54:02,720
that's the problem is you know again

1505
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:05,119
people are so steadfast in their ways or

1506
00:54:09,270 --> 00:54:07,359
or like you said maybe they just want to

1507
00:54:10,630 --> 00:54:09,280
put a response video out there because

1508
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:10,640
they know it'll get

1509
00:54:14,470 --> 00:54:12,319
traffic um

1510
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:14,480
everyone has their own intentions and

1511
00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:16,240
motivations when it comes to these sorts

1512
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:17,520
of things

1513
00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:19,280
yeah that's kind of my personal

1514
00:54:23,430 --> 00:54:21,599
observation on that but um yeah did you

1515
00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:23,440
want to respond to that sorry

1516
00:54:27,910 --> 00:54:25,359
no i kind of agree with you there it's

1517
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:29,589
people i think have different

1518
00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:32,160
motivations for what they're doing

1519
00:54:36,710 --> 00:54:35,200
in ufology and some people are doing it

1520
00:54:38,710 --> 00:54:36,720
for clicks

1521
00:54:40,470 --> 00:54:38,720
i tend to assume that people are not and

1522
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:40,480
i always approach people as if you know

1523
00:54:43,030 --> 00:54:41,520
they just

1524
00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:43,040
want to have an honest

1525
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:44,640
dialogue and they want to get to the

1526
00:54:46,789 --> 00:54:46,079
truth

1527
00:54:49,750 --> 00:54:46,799
but

1528
00:54:51,349 --> 00:54:49,760
if people are kind of deliberately or

1529
00:54:53,030 --> 00:54:51,359
perhaps not deliberately but they're

1530
00:54:56,230 --> 00:54:53,040
they're asking the wrong questions of an

1531
00:54:57,990 --> 00:54:56,240
expert they say jeremy corbell does this

1532
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:58,000
all the time jeremy kobel won't talk to

1533
00:55:02,390 --> 00:55:00,400
me he won't even mention my name he

1534
00:55:06,150 --> 00:55:02,400
doesn't want to give me any publicity

1535
00:55:09,270 --> 00:55:06,160
uh but he he will have uh an expert on

1536
00:55:11,430 --> 00:55:09,280
to to debunk me when you know what would

1537
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:11,440
be better is if that expert if you got

1538
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:13,520
an actual flair expert

1539
00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:15,359
you could talk directly to me

1540
00:55:19,190 --> 00:55:16,960
and we could go back and forth and we

1541
00:55:20,870 --> 00:55:19,200
could hammer out where our actual areas

1542
00:55:22,950 --> 00:55:20,880
of disagreement are

1543
00:55:24,870 --> 00:55:22,960
and try to resolve them

1544
00:55:26,230 --> 00:55:24,880
and that's something i i do in you know

1545
00:55:27,670 --> 00:55:26,240
all the

1546
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:27,680
interactions i have with conspiracy

1547
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:30,319
theorists part of the the backbone of of

1548
00:55:35,349 --> 00:55:32,160
my book

1549
00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:35,359
is this method of

1550
00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:36,960
getting down to some kind of common

1551
00:55:41,109 --> 00:55:38,240
ground

1552
00:55:43,030 --> 00:55:41,119
and then trying to identify the the next

1553
00:55:44,710 --> 00:55:43,040
step up where you actually disagree so

1554
00:55:47,030 --> 00:55:44,720
yeah we agree that you know this video

1555
00:55:49,109 --> 00:55:47,040
was taken by a navy jet and that it

1556
00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:49,119
shows um

1557
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:50,640
something that's there's there's

1558
00:55:55,510 --> 00:55:53,760
probably a a a flying craft of some sort

1559
00:55:56,789 --> 00:55:55,520
off in the distance you know we could

1560
00:55:59,349 --> 00:55:56,799
agree about that and then we start to

1561
00:56:01,030 --> 00:55:59,359
disagree about uh does it lose lock at

1562
00:56:03,430 --> 00:56:01,040
the end on this this video whatever it

1563
00:56:05,589 --> 00:56:03,440
is or is it rotating things like that so

1564
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:05,599
you say why why why do we have a

1565
00:56:09,750 --> 00:56:07,680
disagreement here

1566
00:56:13,349 --> 00:56:09,760
uh is it you know what's

1567
00:56:15,510 --> 00:56:13,359
what am i basing my belief my opinion

1568
00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:15,520
uh on this this rotation or whatever it

1569
00:56:19,349 --> 00:56:17,680
is i wanna what are you basing yours on

1570
00:56:21,349 --> 00:56:19,359
and perhaps perhaps i'm missing

1571
00:56:22,870 --> 00:56:21,359
something that you could explain to me

1572
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:22,880
or perhaps you're missing something that

1573
00:56:27,030 --> 00:56:24,640
i could explain to you or perhaps we're

1574
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:27,040
both missing something or perhaps we're

1575
00:56:29,589 --> 00:56:28,400
not missing anything but we're just

1576
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:29,599
failing to

1577
00:56:33,109 --> 00:56:31,200
communicate perhaps we're talking past

1578
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:33,119
each other in some way

1579
00:56:35,270 --> 00:56:34,000
but

1580
00:56:38,789 --> 00:56:35,280
that's very difficult to do if all

1581
00:56:40,069 --> 00:56:38,799
you're doing is putting out a video and

1582
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:40,079
waiting

1583
00:56:43,430 --> 00:56:42,160
here months before you interact with

1584
00:56:45,270 --> 00:56:43,440
anybody

1585
00:56:47,430 --> 00:56:45,280
i put out videos because i'm trying to

1586
00:56:49,349 --> 00:56:47,440
explain what my my thoughts are on

1587
00:56:51,589 --> 00:56:49,359
particular theories i'm not trying to

1588
00:56:53,030 --> 00:56:51,599
argue that you know

1589
00:56:54,950 --> 00:56:53,040
it's not aliens

1590
00:56:57,190 --> 00:56:54,960
i'm trying to say this is what i think

1591
00:56:59,349 --> 00:56:57,200
this video shows

1592
00:57:00,710 --> 00:56:59,359
but if someone disagrees with me like

1593
00:57:03,670 --> 00:57:00,720
let's talk

1594
00:57:06,710 --> 00:57:03,680
let's actually you know discuss what

1595
00:57:08,309 --> 00:57:06,720
the reason is that you think that this

1596
00:57:10,069 --> 00:57:08,319
object didn't lose lock or that you

1597
00:57:12,390 --> 00:57:10,079
think it's a distinct object rotating

1598
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:12,400
and you know i'll explain why i think

1599
00:57:16,309 --> 00:57:14,240
the other thing and then we'll we'll

1600
00:57:17,349 --> 00:57:16,319
we'll figure it out we'll actually move

1601
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:17,359
forward

1602
00:57:21,430 --> 00:57:20,079
and yeah something that happens a lot is

1603
00:57:23,510 --> 00:57:21,440
my arguments

1604
00:57:25,910 --> 00:57:23,520
change and evolve because they get

1605
00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:25,920
challenged that's why i like

1606
00:57:28,549 --> 00:57:26,880
that's why i like putting them on

1607
00:57:30,309 --> 00:57:28,559
twitter or on facebook you know some

1608
00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:30,319
people say oh mickey should you should

1609
00:57:33,349 --> 00:57:31,440
submit your

1610
00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:33,359
your ideas for peer review publication

1611
00:57:38,710 --> 00:57:35,599
in a scientific journal and then i will

1612
00:57:39,990 --> 00:57:38,720
read it and that's just nonsense uh

1613
00:57:41,990 --> 00:57:40,000
what's the point of doing that you know

1614
00:57:44,230 --> 00:57:42,000
i spent three months

1615
00:57:46,309 --> 00:57:44,240
getting a paper out and just so somebody

1616
00:57:48,390 --> 00:57:46,319
can point out an error in it i just put

1617
00:57:50,630 --> 00:57:48,400
the idea out now someone can point out

1618
00:57:52,069 --> 00:57:50,640
the error i revise it then put it out

1619
00:57:53,829 --> 00:57:52,079
again another person points out the

1620
00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:53,839
error and we have this discussion about

1621
00:57:57,030 --> 00:57:55,440
what's actually going on a whole bunch

1622
00:57:58,549 --> 00:57:57,040
of people can work on it

1623
00:58:01,270 --> 00:57:58,559
more errors will be found things will

1624
00:58:03,750 --> 00:58:01,280
get better it will evolve in increments

1625
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:03,760
and and improve but if you you just

1626
00:58:08,950 --> 00:58:06,000
start like

1627
00:58:11,589 --> 00:58:08,960
formulating your theory into a paper

1628
00:58:12,710 --> 00:58:11,599
it's just it's just a waste of time

1629
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:12,720
you know unless you've actually got some

1630
00:58:17,589 --> 00:58:14,400
kind of scientific study where you've

1631
00:58:20,069 --> 00:58:17,599
got testable reproducible results

1632
00:58:22,069 --> 00:58:20,079
you may as well just stick it on twitter

1633
00:58:24,150 --> 00:58:22,079
and let people at it because it's going

1634
00:58:27,030 --> 00:58:24,160
to get a lot better that way it will be

1635
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:27,040
a lot better argument at the end of it

1636
00:58:30,549 --> 00:58:28,720
if it goes through the fire of being

1637
00:58:31,990 --> 00:58:30,559
critiqued by twitter and facebook and

1638
00:58:34,549 --> 00:58:32,000
metabolic

1639
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:34,559
yeah yeah you're kind of chiseling away

1640
00:58:38,549 --> 00:58:36,720
at the sculpture and uh trying to get

1641
00:58:41,589 --> 00:58:38,559
the uh the full

1642
00:58:44,150 --> 00:58:41,599
definitive uh statue i guess that's a

1643
00:58:46,470 --> 00:58:44,160
weird analogy but um mick do you mind if

1644
00:58:52,549 --> 00:58:46,480
we move to uh some listener questions i

1645
00:58:56,230 --> 00:58:54,390
what's up guys ryan sprague here and i'm

1646
00:58:58,789 --> 00:58:56,240
just dropping in to remind you about our

1647
00:59:00,870 --> 00:58:58,799
patreon campaign somewhere in the skies

1648
00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:00,880
is always free to consume but it's not

1649
00:59:04,470 --> 00:59:02,640
free to create so if you want to help

1650
00:59:06,710 --> 00:59:04,480
the show on a monthly basis

1651
00:59:08,950 --> 00:59:06,720
we have tons of rewards for you in

1652
00:59:12,150 --> 00:59:08,960
return including shout outs on the show

1653
00:59:13,750 --> 00:59:12,160
and website bonus content and episodes

1654
00:59:15,990 --> 00:59:13,760
and free merch

1655
00:59:18,710 --> 00:59:16,000
want to be my guest or pick a topic for

1656
00:59:20,309 --> 00:59:18,720
the show you can do that too so if you'd

1657
00:59:23,190 --> 00:59:20,319
like to learn more and to help support

1658
00:59:25,990 --> 00:59:23,200
the show visit patreon.com

1659
00:59:26,420 --> 00:59:26,000
summerskies thank you and keep looking

1660
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:26,430
up

1661
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:34,470
so ricardo asks if you had a chance to

1662
00:59:39,030 --> 00:59:37,200
analyze classified material would you

1663
00:59:41,670 --> 00:59:39,040
look at it even if that implied that you

1664
00:59:43,910 --> 00:59:41,680
could not publicly acknowledge that this

1665
00:59:46,549 --> 00:59:43,920
additional information changed or at

1666
00:59:49,109 --> 00:59:46,559
least challenged your stance on some

1667
00:59:52,230 --> 00:59:49,119
cases you personally looked into

1668
00:59:53,910 --> 00:59:52,240
definitely yeah i mean uh lu elizondo

1669
00:59:55,910 --> 00:59:53,920
isn't allowed to tell us about the

1670
00:59:57,990 --> 00:59:55,920
classified information that he has but

1671
00:59:59,829 --> 00:59:58,000
he he doesn't seem to have any problem

1672
01:00:01,750 --> 00:59:59,839
with here

1673
01:00:04,150 --> 01:00:01,760
saying that he believes what he does

1674
01:00:06,390 --> 01:00:04,160
because of things he has seen

1675
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:06,400
uh i don't think you can kind of do such

1676
01:00:10,549 --> 01:00:09,359
a blanket classification

1677
01:00:12,710 --> 01:00:10,559
uh

1678
01:00:15,030 --> 01:00:12,720
that would include you know me saying

1679
01:00:16,710 --> 01:00:15,040
i've seen things that have convinced me

1680
01:00:18,630 --> 01:00:16,720
that there's something to this phenomena

1681
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:18,640
example example phrase don't take that

1682
01:00:25,750 --> 01:00:23,109
and that you know

1683
01:00:26,710 --> 01:00:25,760
so yeah i definitely would look at these

1684
01:00:29,270 --> 01:00:26,720
things

1685
01:00:31,670 --> 01:00:29,280
even if i was unable to discuss the

1686
01:00:34,309 --> 01:00:31,680
specifics or even the the nature of them

1687
01:00:36,230 --> 01:00:34,319
ever again then i would know and it

1688
01:00:39,109 --> 01:00:36,240
would uh

1689
01:00:42,069 --> 01:00:39,119
presumably change my approach

1690
01:00:43,510 --> 01:00:42,079
uh to everything else if i got some some

1691
01:00:45,190 --> 01:00:43,520
evidence that pointed to a certain

1692
01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:45,200
outcome

1693
01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:49,520
gotcha yeah i like that um nug 4t on

1694
01:00:55,349 --> 01:00:52,000
reddit asks do you know anything about

1695
01:00:57,190 --> 01:00:55,359
the ai project that elizondo and de long

1696
01:01:00,230 --> 01:00:57,200
have talked about in regards to

1697
01:01:01,990 --> 01:01:00,240
capturing and analyzing ufos do you

1698
01:01:05,190 --> 01:01:02,000
happen to know if this requires new

1699
01:01:09,190 --> 01:01:05,200
legislation in regards of using private

1700
01:01:11,109 --> 01:01:09,200
domestic video yeah anything on that

1701
01:01:12,950 --> 01:01:11,119
uh well

1702
01:01:14,470 --> 01:01:12,960
uh

1703
01:01:16,309 --> 01:01:14,480
what what they want to do is they

1704
01:01:18,549 --> 01:01:16,319
basically you know the big problem we

1705
01:01:21,190 --> 01:01:18,559
have in ufology is that we get a

1706
01:01:24,230 --> 01:01:21,200
shitload of ufo reports and ufo videos

1707
01:01:26,710 --> 01:01:24,240
and then they're they're nearly all crap

1708
01:01:28,390 --> 01:01:26,720
i mean let's face it i mean 99.99 of

1709
01:01:29,990 --> 01:01:28,400
them are crap and

1710
01:01:31,670 --> 01:01:30,000
there's a small percentage that might

1711
01:01:33,430 --> 01:01:31,680
not be but we don't we can't really tell

1712
01:01:35,750 --> 01:01:33,440
if they're real or not

1713
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:35,760
but it's difficult to

1714
01:01:41,109 --> 01:01:39,839
to find things in this so the ai idea is

1715
01:01:43,270 --> 01:01:41,119
something that

1716
01:01:46,870 --> 01:01:43,280
has only become possible in recent years

1717
01:01:50,390 --> 01:01:46,880
is that we we train an ai to find

1718
01:01:52,470 --> 01:01:50,400
interesting cases or to find anomalies

1719
01:01:54,549 --> 01:01:52,480
so we show it cases and then we tell it

1720
01:01:56,710 --> 01:01:54,559
what these cases are

1721
01:01:58,870 --> 01:01:56,720
and then we show some other cases and it

1722
01:02:01,190 --> 01:01:58,880
tries to see you know is this a bird is

1723
01:02:04,390 --> 01:02:01,200
it a plane is it a balloon uh can we

1724
01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:04,400
eliminate it and then it will try to

1725
01:02:08,150 --> 01:02:06,480
figure out is is there actually

1726
01:02:09,910 --> 01:02:08,160
something unusual going on and it might

1727
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:09,920
even just be a kind of a statistical

1728
01:02:12,470 --> 01:02:11,440
thing like perhaps there's more things

1729
01:02:14,309 --> 01:02:12,480
going on

1730
01:02:16,789 --> 01:02:14,319
near nuclear power stations or something

1731
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:16,799
like that but you can train ai to do

1732
01:02:19,910 --> 01:02:18,000
things like that you can train it to

1733
01:02:22,549 --> 01:02:19,920
look at videos i don't think there's any

1734
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:22,559
issue with um

1735
01:02:25,349 --> 01:02:23,440
using

1736
01:02:27,190 --> 01:02:25,359
public video

1737
01:02:29,029 --> 01:02:27,200
er i think either it's going to be a

1738
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:29,039
video that's kind of in the semi-public

1739
01:02:33,029 --> 01:02:30,720
domain like youtube videos and things

1740
01:02:35,029 --> 01:02:33,039
like that i don't know if there's

1741
01:02:37,510 --> 01:02:35,039
there's a specific thing that says you

1742
01:02:39,349 --> 01:02:37,520
couldn't download a youtube video to to

1743
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:39,359
analyze it doesn't seem to make any

1744
01:02:42,789 --> 01:02:40,720
sense but you know a lot of this stuff

1745
01:02:45,349 --> 01:02:42,799
is stuff that people submit

1746
01:02:46,870 --> 01:02:45,359
to online databases like mufon uh that

1747
01:02:47,910 --> 01:02:46,880
they probably would be given permission

1748
01:02:51,270 --> 01:02:47,920
to

1749
01:02:53,670 --> 01:02:51,280
uh that video

1750
01:02:55,510 --> 01:02:53,680
uh so i think it's a good idea i i doubt

1751
01:02:56,309 --> 01:02:55,520
it's going to come to anything

1752
01:03:09,670 --> 01:02:56,319
i

1753
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:09,680
a network of cameras and radars around

1754
01:03:14,390 --> 01:03:11,680
the country that were recording 24 7

1755
01:03:16,309 --> 01:03:14,400
kind of like the galileo project

1756
01:03:18,870 --> 01:03:16,319
maybe you could get some some quality

1757
01:03:20,549 --> 01:03:18,880
data but i don't think you could really

1758
01:03:24,150 --> 01:03:20,559
get anything useful

1759
01:03:26,069 --> 01:03:24,160
if you took like say all uh 120 000

1760
01:03:28,950 --> 01:03:26,079
cases that are in the mufon database

1761
01:03:30,710 --> 01:03:28,960
right now i i really doubt very much

1762
01:03:32,870 --> 01:03:30,720
that there's anything

1763
01:03:33,990 --> 01:03:32,880
even the most advanced ai could pull out

1764
01:03:37,670 --> 01:03:34,000
of that

1765
01:03:38,630 --> 01:03:37,680
but it's certainly uh the way to go

1766
01:03:41,910 --> 01:03:38,640
right

1767
01:03:44,789 --> 01:03:41,920
you don't really have a base

1768
01:03:46,630 --> 01:03:44,799
level to kind of you know work off of so

1769
01:03:49,029 --> 01:03:46,640
i totally get that what do you think

1770
01:03:50,230 --> 01:03:49,039
about um the galileo project and what

1771
01:03:52,630 --> 01:03:50,240
avi loeb

1772
01:03:54,789 --> 01:03:52,640
is doing is that something you would

1773
01:03:57,349 --> 01:03:54,799
support i mean not like financially or

1774
01:03:59,990 --> 01:03:57,359
anything um but like is that something

1775
01:04:02,630 --> 01:04:00,000
you think uh is worth the time the

1776
01:04:05,589 --> 01:04:02,640
effort the money uh you know it's being

1777
01:04:07,510 --> 01:04:05,599
funded by harvard essentially um and you

1778
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:07,520
know private donors yeah i don't think

1779
01:04:13,750 --> 01:04:09,599
it is i think it's mostly private stuff

1780
01:04:16,390 --> 01:04:13,760
uh and kind of you know his his uh um

1781
01:04:18,309 --> 01:04:16,400
he's what the discretionary spending

1782
01:04:19,670 --> 01:04:18,319
that he has he can do whatever project

1783
01:04:21,109 --> 01:04:19,680
he likes because he's a tenured

1784
01:04:24,230 --> 01:04:21,119
professor

1785
01:04:27,029 --> 01:04:24,240
uh i think i doubt anything will come of

1786
01:04:29,430 --> 01:04:27,039
it i i don't think

1787
01:04:31,029 --> 01:04:29,440
that it's very likely that

1788
01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:31,039
you would get enough of these

1789
01:04:34,390 --> 01:04:32,880
high-powered telescopes around the

1790
01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:34,400
country to find

1791
01:04:39,029 --> 01:04:36,240
uh anything of interest based on just

1792
01:04:42,150 --> 01:04:39,039
the frequency of the sightings of ufos i

1793
01:04:44,150 --> 01:04:42,160
i don't really see

1794
01:04:45,750 --> 01:04:44,160
anything happening other than getting

1795
01:04:47,589 --> 01:04:45,760
close-up photographs of birds and

1796
01:04:49,349 --> 01:04:47,599
balloons and planes and drones and

1797
01:04:52,309 --> 01:04:49,359
plastic bags

1798
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:52,319
and then other things you'll you'll have

1799
01:04:55,670 --> 01:04:54,400
photos it will you'll have photos of

1800
01:04:58,390 --> 01:04:55,680
things the way it's

1801
01:05:01,510 --> 01:04:58,400
just too far away even for this

1802
01:05:03,349 --> 01:05:01,520
yeah fifty thousand dollar uh telescope

1803
01:05:05,750 --> 01:05:03,359
or a half a million dollar telescope

1804
01:05:06,870 --> 01:05:05,760
that he he wants to use for the project

1805
01:05:09,109 --> 01:05:06,880
there's always gonna be something that's

1806
01:05:11,430 --> 01:05:09,119
too far away and you've got these

1807
01:05:12,870 --> 01:05:11,440
limiting factors like distance obviously

1808
01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:12,880
but the atmosphere the atmosphere

1809
01:05:16,630 --> 01:05:14,880
distorts things if you're looking from

1810
01:05:18,710 --> 01:05:16,640
the ground or something that's 20 miles

1811
01:05:19,589 --> 01:05:18,720
away through the atmosphere you can't

1812
01:05:21,190 --> 01:05:19,599
get

1813
01:05:23,589 --> 01:05:21,200
close enough picture of it because you

1814
01:05:25,430 --> 01:05:23,599
the atmosphere is too too wobbly

1815
01:05:27,990 --> 01:05:25,440
so i think it's unlikely that anything

1816
01:05:29,589 --> 01:05:28,000
will come of it i i don't really mind

1817
01:05:31,270 --> 01:05:29,599
private individuals spending their own

1818
01:05:34,230 --> 01:05:31,280
money on something like that it's it'd

1819
01:05:36,150 --> 01:05:34,240
be fun and i think it would be good

1820
01:05:38,230 --> 01:05:36,160
if if you do get a lot of these these

1821
01:05:40,309 --> 01:05:38,240
cameras out there what's gonna happen is

1822
01:05:42,069 --> 01:05:40,319
it's just a little bit more

1823
01:05:44,150 --> 01:05:42,079
evidence of absence

1824
01:05:46,549 --> 01:05:44,160
from absence of evidence

1825
01:05:48,150 --> 01:05:46,559
if if ufos were flying around up there

1826
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:48,160
in any kind of frequency

1827
01:05:52,710 --> 01:05:50,880
we'd be getting photos of them and

1828
01:05:54,710 --> 01:05:52,720
the absence of evidence

1829
01:05:56,470 --> 01:05:54,720
kind of indicates that there's not very

1830
01:05:58,150 --> 01:05:56,480
many of them if any

1831
01:06:01,829 --> 01:05:58,160
and i think that's what's going to

1832
01:06:03,029 --> 01:06:01,839
happen with project galileo is

1833
01:06:05,589 --> 01:06:03,039
you know people are kind of throwing the

1834
01:06:07,510 --> 01:06:05,599
money away i think but it will at least

1835
01:06:09,430 --> 01:06:07,520
get you a bunch of close-up photographs

1836
01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:09,440
of of things and it would be good

1837
01:06:11,750 --> 01:06:10,559
examples

1838
01:06:13,750 --> 01:06:11,760
you can say like you know this looks

1839
01:06:16,470 --> 01:06:13,760
like a white blob on my iphone but yeah

1840
01:06:17,990 --> 01:06:16,480
with this amazing telescope we can see

1841
01:06:20,069 --> 01:06:18,000
it was actually a plane or it was

1842
01:06:22,390 --> 01:06:20,079
actually a drone or it was actually a

1843
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:22,400
solar balloon or whatever it was

1844
01:06:26,390 --> 01:06:24,640
interesting yeah and you know um i've

1845
01:06:29,349 --> 01:06:26,400
heard you bring up too that like you

1846
01:06:31,589 --> 01:06:29,359
know the wonder of magic can be just as

1847
01:06:33,270 --> 01:06:31,599
powerful as the wonder of science and

1848
01:06:35,910 --> 01:06:33,280
you know that's

1849
01:06:38,150 --> 01:06:35,920
if that's what we get maybe they capture

1850
01:06:40,549 --> 01:06:38,160
some amazing weather anomaly that we've

1851
01:06:42,870 --> 01:06:40,559
never maybe you know seen before and

1852
01:06:45,990 --> 01:06:42,880
that could be just as exciting and cool

1853
01:06:48,150 --> 01:06:46,000
in my opinion as yeah possibly a craft

1854
01:06:49,829 --> 01:06:48,160
from another whatever interstellar

1855
01:06:51,670 --> 01:06:49,839
object or whatnot

1856
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:51,680
yeah i mentioned something in another

1857
01:06:57,109 --> 01:06:53,599
podcast i think with ufo jane about a

1858
01:06:58,950 --> 01:06:57,119
thing called uh the crown flash which

1859
01:07:01,430 --> 01:06:58,960
i'd encourage anybody to look at look up

1860
01:07:04,230 --> 01:07:01,440
on youtube uh crown flash

1861
01:07:06,390 --> 01:07:04,240
is this amazing atmospheric phenomena

1862
01:07:08,549 --> 01:07:06,400
that looks like aliens having some kind

1863
01:07:10,630 --> 01:07:08,559
of battle on top of a cloud

1864
01:07:11,990 --> 01:07:10,640
but it's just a natural phenomena but

1865
01:07:14,549 --> 01:07:12,000
it's something that was never recorded

1866
01:07:17,190 --> 01:07:14,559
on video until about 10 years ago

1867
01:07:18,789 --> 01:07:17,200
uh but it's you know there are things in

1868
01:07:20,470 --> 01:07:18,799
the atmosphere that we don't fully

1869
01:07:22,789 --> 01:07:20,480
understand we don't fully understand how

1870
01:07:24,549 --> 01:07:22,799
crown flashes work uh we can tell

1871
01:07:26,829 --> 01:07:24,559
there's some kind of

1872
01:07:30,230 --> 01:07:26,839
combination of uh

1873
01:07:32,069 --> 01:07:30,240
charged uh uh charged particles and

1874
01:07:34,309 --> 01:07:32,079
ice cloud orientation and stuff like

1875
01:07:35,670 --> 01:07:34,319
that but we don't know the exact uh

1876
01:07:37,510 --> 01:07:35,680
mechanism

1877
01:07:39,510 --> 01:07:37,520
uh so that you know there could well be

1878
01:07:41,510 --> 01:07:39,520
interesting things that get discovered

1879
01:07:43,190 --> 01:07:41,520
maybe we'll discover there's a lot more

1880
01:07:44,470 --> 01:07:43,200
i don't know plastic bags floating

1881
01:07:46,390 --> 01:07:44,480
around in the sky than we actually

1882
01:07:48,549 --> 01:07:46,400
thought that there were or there are

1883
01:07:50,870 --> 01:07:48,559
some high-flying birds that are

1884
01:07:52,549 --> 01:07:50,880
responsible for some of this but yeah i

1885
01:07:54,870 --> 01:07:52,559
think the likelihood of being able to

1886
01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:54,880
catch one of the very elusive

1887
01:08:00,069 --> 01:07:57,920
um uaps

1888
01:08:02,230 --> 01:08:00,079
is pretty low

1889
01:08:03,910 --> 01:08:02,240
yeah hey that's why i got into all this

1890
01:08:05,750 --> 01:08:03,920
make plastic bags

1891
01:08:08,309 --> 01:08:05,760
up in the air i've got plenty of them in

1892
01:08:11,270 --> 01:08:08,319
the trees here in new york city it's an

1893
01:08:14,150 --> 01:08:11,280
interesting uh environment we have here

1894
01:08:15,990 --> 01:08:14,160
um well on a personal level audrey on

1895
01:08:18,550 --> 01:08:16,000
facebook wants to know how has the

1896
01:08:20,789 --> 01:08:18,560
exposure experience positive and

1897
01:08:22,149 --> 01:08:20,799
negative attention affected you on a

1898
01:08:23,749 --> 01:08:22,159
personal level

1899
01:08:27,189 --> 01:08:23,759
did you ever feel like calling it quits

1900
01:08:29,349 --> 01:08:27,199
and just walking away from um the ufo

1901
01:08:32,070 --> 01:08:29,359
community or i guess the conspiracy

1902
01:08:34,229 --> 01:08:32,080
community overall

1903
01:08:36,149 --> 01:08:34,239
um occasionally but that's not really

1904
01:08:37,910 --> 01:08:36,159
because of the reaction i get it's it's

1905
01:08:40,550 --> 01:08:37,920
more because it becomes a little a

1906
01:08:43,590 --> 01:08:40,560
little stagnated a little boring

1907
01:08:45,590 --> 01:08:43,600
uh nothing's really happening in a field

1908
01:08:48,309 --> 01:08:45,600
i kind of get a bit bored with it

1909
01:08:51,110 --> 01:08:48,319
i happened with chemtrails a while back

1910
01:08:52,789 --> 01:08:51,120
uh i believe in like 2010 i think i was

1911
01:08:55,030 --> 01:08:52,799
getting really bored with chemtrails and

1912
01:08:57,030 --> 01:08:55,040
then this story came along of this what

1913
01:08:59,430 --> 01:08:57,040
looked like a missile being shot off the

1914
01:09:00,950 --> 01:08:59,440
coast of los angeles and it was really

1915
01:09:03,269 --> 01:09:00,960
interesting and everybody was really

1916
01:09:04,950 --> 01:09:03,279
into solving it and i ended up on cnn

1917
01:09:07,110 --> 01:09:04,960
explaining it was just just a contract

1918
01:09:07,990 --> 01:09:07,120
remember type yeah yeah a long time ago

1919
01:09:10,070 --> 01:09:08,000
though

1920
01:09:12,309 --> 01:09:10,080
uh so yeah i

1921
01:09:14,390 --> 01:09:12,319
the reactions i get from people i i

1922
01:09:16,149 --> 01:09:14,400
don't mind it's it's understandable that

1923
01:09:18,550 --> 01:09:16,159
some people are gonna have negative

1924
01:09:21,110 --> 01:09:18,560
reactions there are some people who have

1925
01:09:23,110 --> 01:09:21,120
very strong uh beliefs that the

1926
01:09:25,430 --> 01:09:23,120
government is lying to them

1927
01:09:27,189 --> 01:09:25,440
and so they they think i'm

1928
01:09:28,709 --> 01:09:27,199
defending the government which i'm which

1929
01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:28,719
i'm not they think i'm some kind of

1930
01:09:32,630 --> 01:09:30,080
government chill

1931
01:09:34,950 --> 01:09:32,640
uh that i'm being paid to do this and i

1932
01:09:36,789 --> 01:09:34,960
can understand why they're thinking that

1933
01:09:38,309 --> 01:09:36,799
from their point of view you know if

1934
01:09:39,669 --> 01:09:38,319
they believe that

1935
01:09:41,829 --> 01:09:39,679
the government is telling you all these

1936
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:41,839
lies and they would have to have these

1937
01:09:44,709 --> 01:09:43,120
these shills

1938
01:09:46,309 --> 01:09:44,719
to help spread the lies i could see why

1939
01:09:47,590 --> 01:09:46,319
they would they would think you know i

1940
01:09:49,669 --> 01:09:47,600
would be one of them based on their

1941
01:09:52,789 --> 01:09:49,679
beliefs i mean they they're wrong

1942
01:09:53,829 --> 01:09:52,799
uh but i i understand it and if if

1943
01:09:55,510 --> 01:09:53,839
someone

1944
01:09:56,870 --> 01:09:55,520
has had a personal experience with the

1945
01:10:00,870 --> 01:09:56,880
ufo

1946
01:10:03,350 --> 01:10:00,880
uh if they they saw like you know a uh

1947
01:10:06,070 --> 01:10:03,360
a tr-3b fly over there their house or

1948
01:10:08,390 --> 01:10:06,080
their car or whatever or or even just

1949
01:10:10,550 --> 01:10:08,400
a simple light in the sky or a v-shaped

1950
01:10:12,630 --> 01:10:10,560
in the sky or something like that

1951
01:10:13,910 --> 01:10:12,640
and they know what they saw

1952
01:10:15,750 --> 01:10:13,920
yes they think they know that what they

1953
01:10:17,590 --> 01:10:15,760
saw and then i come along and i say

1954
01:10:20,630 --> 01:10:17,600
start saying things like oh it's easy to

1955
01:10:22,470 --> 01:10:20,640
misperceive things or misremember things

1956
01:10:25,990 --> 01:10:22,480
they get angry at me and i understand

1957
01:10:27,590 --> 01:10:26,000
that because i'm i'm i'm saying that you

1958
01:10:29,750 --> 01:10:27,600
know they didn't see what they saw and

1959
01:10:31,110 --> 01:10:29,760
they they know they saw what they saw so

1960
01:10:32,630 --> 01:10:31,120
i can understand why people would get

1961
01:10:34,870 --> 01:10:32,640
angry at me so

1962
01:10:36,630 --> 01:10:34,880
i've actually got a lot more pushback in

1963
01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:36,640
terms of emotional

1964
01:10:40,550 --> 01:10:39,120
engagement from the ufo community that i

1965
01:10:42,070 --> 01:10:40,560
have from

1966
01:10:45,030 --> 01:10:42,080
the

1967
01:10:47,430 --> 01:10:45,040
911 and chemtrails and flat earth

1968
01:10:49,189 --> 01:10:47,440
uh conspiracies uh i think because

1969
01:10:51,750 --> 01:10:49,199
people feel like

1970
01:10:53,110 --> 01:10:51,760
i'm personally attacking them because

1971
01:10:54,229 --> 01:10:53,120
they have some kind of personal

1972
01:10:56,630 --> 01:10:54,239
involvement

1973
01:10:58,630 --> 01:10:56,640
in this you know and a lot of people

1974
01:11:00,550 --> 01:10:58,640
even if they haven't seen the ufo

1975
01:11:02,630 --> 01:11:00,560
they've been really into it since they

1976
01:11:04,950 --> 01:11:02,640
were young and so it's this kind of

1977
01:11:07,189 --> 01:11:04,960
foundational almost religious level

1978
01:11:08,229 --> 01:11:07,199
belief that they have

1979
01:11:09,189 --> 01:11:08,239
that

1980
01:11:11,910 --> 01:11:09,199
is

1981
01:11:14,229 --> 01:11:11,920
very difficult for them to accept that

1982
01:11:16,790 --> 01:11:14,239
they might have been wrong about it and

1983
01:11:18,470 --> 01:11:16,800
so they don't they don't like hearing

1984
01:11:19,910 --> 01:11:18,480
the things that i am saying so it's

1985
01:11:21,430 --> 01:11:19,920
understandable

1986
01:11:22,950 --> 01:11:21,440
and i don't mind when people get angry

1987
01:11:24,950 --> 01:11:22,960
at me i just you know i know that it's

1988
01:11:26,870 --> 01:11:24,960
coming generally from

1989
01:11:28,229 --> 01:11:26,880
from a place of honesty

1990
01:11:30,470 --> 01:11:28,239
and if they're just being an

1991
01:11:31,910 --> 01:11:30,480
then i just block them and move on so it

1992
01:11:34,550 --> 01:11:31,920
doesn't really bother me

1993
01:11:36,870 --> 01:11:34,560
yeah yeah it's it's interesting how much

1994
01:11:39,830 --> 01:11:36,880
emotion plays into this and belief i

1995
01:11:42,070 --> 01:11:39,840
think belief is probably the worst word

1996
01:11:44,470 --> 01:11:42,080
to have in the ufo

1997
01:11:46,790 --> 01:11:44,480
field because it's nothing but a

1998
01:11:49,350 --> 01:11:46,800
subjective truth and once you bring

1999
01:11:51,510 --> 01:11:49,360
religion into anything you're gonna rile

2000
01:11:53,030 --> 01:11:51,520
up people's emotions because it's

2001
01:11:55,270 --> 01:11:53,040
literally the framework in which they

2002
01:11:57,990 --> 01:11:55,280
base their whole faith on um so when

2003
01:11:58,790 --> 01:11:58,000
someone challenges that i can understand

2004
01:12:01,510 --> 01:11:58,800
why

2005
01:12:04,310 --> 01:12:01,520
people get passionate about it um but

2006
01:12:05,350 --> 01:12:04,320
like we said earlier facts don't care

2007
01:12:08,310 --> 01:12:05,360
about

2008
01:12:11,510 --> 01:12:08,320
your beliefs or what you feel um that's

2009
01:12:13,350 --> 01:12:11,520
simply the that's what it is

2010
01:12:15,510 --> 01:12:13,360
yeah and yeah

2011
01:12:17,270 --> 01:12:15,520
to get to those that

2012
01:12:19,430 --> 01:12:17,280
what the goal here is for me is to get

2013
01:12:20,630 --> 01:12:19,440
to some kind of shared understanding of

2014
01:12:22,470 --> 01:12:20,640
the facts

2015
01:12:24,550 --> 01:12:22,480
you know it's fine if i figure out what

2016
01:12:26,870 --> 01:12:24,560
something is but no one believes me

2017
01:12:27,990 --> 01:12:26,880
that's kind of pointless i there's two

2018
01:12:30,070 --> 01:12:28,000
parts to

2019
01:12:32,149 --> 01:12:30,080
debunking you know one is trying to

2020
01:12:33,990 --> 01:12:32,159
figure out what's actually happening and

2021
01:12:35,110 --> 01:12:34,000
then the other part is trying to explain

2022
01:12:37,110 --> 01:12:35,120
it to people

2023
01:12:38,630 --> 01:12:37,120
and the second part is actually kind of

2024
01:12:41,350 --> 01:12:38,640
90 percent of it

2025
01:12:43,430 --> 01:12:41,360
and once you figure something out then

2026
01:12:44,709 --> 01:12:43,440
you're done but then you've got a whole

2027
01:12:46,229 --> 01:12:44,719
world left

2028
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:46,239
who hasn't figured it out and doesn't

2029
01:12:49,590 --> 01:12:47,679
understand your explanation or hasn't

2030
01:12:51,510 --> 01:12:49,600
hasn't heard of your explanation and

2031
01:12:52,630 --> 01:12:51,520
you've got to try to communicate it's to

2032
01:12:55,030 --> 01:12:52,640
them but i

2033
01:12:57,270 --> 01:12:55,040
i think it can be done

2034
01:13:01,110 --> 01:12:57,280
people

2035
01:13:03,750 --> 01:13:01,120
actually going on it's just tricky to

2036
01:13:06,390 --> 01:13:03,760
get past these defenses that they put up

2037
01:13:09,270 --> 01:13:06,400
and you know perhaps

2038
01:13:11,189 --> 01:13:09,280
and perhaps but by then talking to me

2039
01:13:13,030 --> 01:13:11,199
yeah you you could explain to me why i'm

2040
01:13:14,709 --> 01:13:13,040
actually wrong david fravor come and

2041
01:13:17,030 --> 01:13:14,719
explain to me why i'm wrong about the

2042
01:13:18,630 --> 01:13:17,040
gimbal rotation yeah

2043
01:13:20,550 --> 01:13:18,640
we'll figure it out it's not it's not a

2044
01:13:22,630 --> 01:13:20,560
battle it's something that we can get

2045
01:13:23,990 --> 01:13:22,640
together and mutually

2046
01:13:26,870 --> 01:13:24,000
try to figure

2047
01:13:28,790 --> 01:13:26,880
things out you know what is the problem

2048
01:13:30,790 --> 01:13:28,800
with you know these numbers or whatever

2049
01:13:32,310 --> 01:13:30,800
it is or this particular interpretation

2050
01:13:34,709 --> 01:13:32,320
or what am i missing what are you

2051
01:13:37,430 --> 01:13:34,719
missing yeah we can we can work it out

2052
01:13:39,990 --> 01:13:37,440
yeah i and i feel you know in this field

2053
01:13:41,669 --> 01:13:40,000
everyone proclaims that i just want the

2054
01:13:43,990 --> 01:13:41,679
truth i just want to know the truth

2055
01:13:46,310 --> 01:13:44,000
behind all this but

2056
01:13:47,350 --> 01:13:46,320
then you know even if they got that

2057
01:13:49,110 --> 01:13:47,360
truth

2058
01:13:51,189 --> 01:13:49,120
they're not going to like it they're not

2059
01:13:52,470 --> 01:13:51,199
going to be satisfied and i always

2060
01:13:54,550 --> 01:13:52,480
struggle with that because i feel like

2061
01:13:57,430 --> 01:13:54,560
so many in this field say i want the

2062
01:13:59,669 --> 01:13:57,440
truth about what ufos are yeah but they

2063
01:14:01,750 --> 01:13:59,679
don't really i mean i shouldn't say that

2064
01:14:03,430 --> 01:14:01,760
that's a sweeping assumption but

2065
01:14:05,030 --> 01:14:03,440
you know what i mean like they want the

2066
01:14:06,790 --> 01:14:05,040
truth but then when it comes to them

2067
01:14:10,709 --> 01:14:06,800
they don't accept it

2068
01:14:12,229 --> 01:14:10,719
but the truth is complicated uh yeah if

2069
01:14:14,550 --> 01:14:12,239
people say the government should tell us

2070
01:14:17,189 --> 01:14:14,560
the truth about ufos

2071
01:14:18,790 --> 01:14:17,199
but they're kind of expecting a simple

2072
01:14:19,669 --> 01:14:18,800
truth like

2073
01:14:22,310 --> 01:14:19,679
uh

2074
01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:22,320
ufos are visiting alien crafts and we

2075
01:14:25,910 --> 01:14:23,920
don't think they're they're dangerous

2076
01:14:26,790 --> 01:14:25,920
yeah the government comes out and says

2077
01:14:29,669 --> 01:14:26,800
that

2078
01:14:33,270 --> 01:14:29,679
for

2079
01:14:34,790 --> 01:14:33,280
but the truth more likely is the

2080
01:14:37,350 --> 01:14:34,800
pilots see a whole bunch of different

2081
01:14:39,189 --> 01:14:37,360
things in the sky and we don't know

2082
01:14:41,350 --> 01:14:39,199
what they are a lot of the time because

2083
01:14:43,590 --> 01:14:41,360
there's insufficient information some of

2084
01:14:45,430 --> 01:14:43,600
them kind of look like they're

2085
01:14:47,830 --> 01:14:45,440
weird moving objects

2086
01:14:49,189 --> 01:14:47,840
that probably is the truth the uap

2087
01:14:54,229 --> 01:14:49,199
report

2088
01:14:56,470 --> 01:14:54,239
are that exactly and that

2089
01:14:58,630 --> 01:14:56,480
is probably the truth

2090
01:15:00,229 --> 01:14:58,640
that the government has about ufos so

2091
01:15:02,470 --> 01:15:00,239
when you ask the government needs to

2092
01:15:04,630 --> 01:15:02,480
tell us the truth about ufos

2093
01:15:07,350 --> 01:15:04,640
the uap report

2094
01:15:08,630 --> 01:15:07,360
could be that truth it probably is the

2095
01:15:10,390 --> 01:15:08,640
truth

2096
01:15:12,070 --> 01:15:10,400
but

2097
01:15:14,630 --> 01:15:12,080
how do we how do you explain that to me

2098
01:15:16,310 --> 01:15:14,640
how do you how do you persuade people of

2099
01:15:18,310 --> 01:15:16,320
that when there's all this stuff that's

2100
01:15:21,110 --> 01:15:18,320
behind this wall of secrecy

2101
01:15:24,430 --> 01:15:21,120
yep yep good point um well that kind of

2102
01:15:27,270 --> 01:15:24,440
bleeds into this next one um

2103
01:15:30,070 --> 01:15:27,280
serenity404 on reddit asks do you follow

2104
01:15:32,630 --> 01:15:30,080
any particular objective methodology

2105
01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:32,640
process or checklist when you debunk

2106
01:15:37,510 --> 01:15:35,040
stuff or um

2107
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:37,520
let's see here stuff or if you just

2108
01:15:42,149 --> 01:15:40,320
subjectively freestyle every debunk and

2109
01:15:45,910 --> 01:15:42,159
does your approach even accommodate

2110
01:15:49,189 --> 01:15:45,920
extraordinary conclusions like aliens um

2111
01:15:50,790 --> 01:15:49,199
or or stuff like that um they they make

2112
01:15:53,110 --> 01:15:50,800
a good analogy here too i just want to

2113
01:15:55,270 --> 01:15:53,120
stress this um

2114
01:15:57,350 --> 01:15:55,280
let's see like aliens or if such

2115
01:15:59,830 --> 01:15:57,360
conclusions are inherently

2116
01:16:02,229 --> 01:15:59,840
unattainable in your mind like a maze

2117
01:16:03,750 --> 01:16:02,239
without an exit they say

2118
01:16:06,630 --> 01:16:03,760
well my my

2119
01:16:07,990 --> 01:16:06,640
problem solving um methodology it came

2120
01:16:09,510 --> 01:16:08,000
from this this book i have on my

2121
01:16:11,350 --> 01:16:09,520
bookshelf one second

2122
01:16:13,669 --> 01:16:11,360
yeah

2123
01:16:15,669 --> 01:16:13,679
it's uh the book is called how to solve

2124
01:16:17,830 --> 01:16:15,679
it by g poglia

2125
01:16:20,070 --> 01:16:17,840
and it's this this you know this fairly

2126
01:16:22,070 --> 01:16:20,080
old book that's from the open university

2127
01:16:23,830 --> 01:16:22,080
which is this kind of

2128
01:16:26,149 --> 01:16:23,840
it's online now but it used to be a tv

2129
01:16:29,189 --> 01:16:26,159
university and it has it has a checklist

2130
01:16:31,030 --> 01:16:29,199
in it uh you know it falls open on it

2131
01:16:33,510 --> 01:16:31,040
which is you know how to actually solve

2132
01:16:35,189 --> 01:16:33,520
uh problems you know how to solve a

2133
01:16:36,630 --> 01:16:35,199
problem and you know it just lists a

2134
01:16:38,870 --> 01:16:36,640
number of simple steps that you go

2135
01:16:42,149 --> 01:16:38,880
through and it's aimed at mathematical

2136
01:16:43,590 --> 01:16:42,159
problems but the the fundamentals of the

2137
01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:43,600
methodology

2138
01:16:48,709 --> 01:16:45,760
remain the same and you know one of the

2139
01:16:50,229 --> 01:16:48,719
most important things is to look at the

2140
01:16:52,470 --> 01:16:50,239
problem and

2141
01:16:55,189 --> 01:16:52,480
see if it reminds you of something else

2142
01:16:58,630 --> 01:16:55,199
you know the the biggest part of of my

2143
01:16:59,510 --> 01:16:58,640
methodology for solving ufos

2144
01:17:00,870 --> 01:16:59,520
is

2145
01:17:05,350 --> 01:17:00,880
to

2146
01:17:08,390 --> 01:17:05,360
um recognize things within

2147
01:17:10,390 --> 01:17:08,400
the the data you know the the video or

2148
01:17:11,350 --> 01:17:10,400
the photo whatever it is

2149
01:17:13,590 --> 01:17:11,360
and

2150
01:17:14,950 --> 01:17:13,600
even if it's just a small part of it if

2151
01:17:18,630 --> 01:17:14,960
you can't recognize the whole thing i

2152
01:17:20,550 --> 01:17:18,640
say someone posts a jagged v of white

2153
01:17:22,790 --> 01:17:20,560
dots moving across the sky

2154
01:17:24,709 --> 01:17:22,800
i can immediately recognize that as

2155
01:17:26,310 --> 01:17:24,719
being some some high-flying birds

2156
01:17:27,430 --> 01:17:26,320
because i see high-flying birds all the

2157
01:17:28,790 --> 01:17:27,440
time here

2158
01:17:30,390 --> 01:17:28,800
and i've seen lots of videos of them and

2159
01:17:31,430 --> 01:17:30,400
i know exactly what they look like and i

2160
01:17:32,870 --> 01:17:31,440
know that that'd be the number one

2161
01:17:34,550 --> 01:17:32,880
explanation

2162
01:17:36,070 --> 01:17:34,560
but if you say just you know two white

2163
01:17:37,830 --> 01:17:36,080
dots moving from the sky that's

2164
01:17:40,470 --> 01:17:37,840
something that you know resembles the

2165
01:17:42,070 --> 01:17:40,480
other thing but it's less definitive but

2166
01:17:44,950 --> 01:17:42,080
you still you've you've found something

2167
01:17:46,790 --> 01:17:44,960
that you recognize that it's two dots in

2168
01:17:48,550 --> 01:17:46,800
a kind of a diagonal line moving across

2169
01:17:50,870 --> 01:17:48,560
could be birds so that becomes a

2170
01:17:52,149 --> 01:17:50,880
possibility

2171
01:17:54,950 --> 01:17:52,159
now

2172
01:17:57,189 --> 01:17:54,960
mathematical problem solving is is nice

2173
01:17:59,030 --> 01:17:57,199
because there's usually only one answer

2174
01:18:00,950 --> 01:17:59,040
and you're just

2175
01:18:02,550 --> 01:18:00,960
working to unearth this answer and it's

2176
01:18:04,070 --> 01:18:02,560
got all the data's right there on the

2177
01:18:05,590 --> 01:18:04,080
page and you don't have to go anywhere

2178
01:18:08,229 --> 01:18:05,600
it's a lot messier

2179
01:18:10,709 --> 01:18:08,239
when you've got ufos

2180
01:18:15,189 --> 01:18:12,310
one of the biggest parts of my

2181
01:18:18,790 --> 01:18:15,199
methodology is what i call orcamic

2182
01:18:20,950 --> 01:18:18,800
ranking named after uh the occam's razer

2183
01:18:23,510 --> 01:18:20,960
occam's razer is like the the

2184
01:18:25,510 --> 01:18:23,520
explanation with the fewest

2185
01:18:26,470 --> 01:18:25,520
things that need adding to it

2186
01:18:28,709 --> 01:18:26,480
is

2187
01:18:30,790 --> 01:18:28,719
more likely the simpler explanation of

2188
01:18:33,750 --> 01:18:30,800
the better explanation

2189
01:18:35,750 --> 01:18:33,760
and what i do is i

2190
01:18:37,350 --> 01:18:35,760
try to think of all the possibilities

2191
01:18:38,550 --> 01:18:37,360
that something might be no matter how

2192
01:18:39,510 --> 01:18:38,560
outrageous

2193
01:18:41,030 --> 01:18:39,520
seeming

2194
01:18:43,189 --> 01:18:41,040
like you get a white dot in the sky what

2195
01:18:44,950 --> 01:18:43,199
could it be you know it could be

2196
01:18:45,830 --> 01:18:44,960
it could be a fake video it could be a

2197
01:18:47,510 --> 01:18:45,840
bird

2198
01:18:59,350 --> 01:18:47,520
it could be a

2199
01:19:00,229 --> 01:18:59,360
all these possibilities

2200
01:19:01,669 --> 01:19:00,239
and

2201
01:19:03,430 --> 01:19:01,679
then you

2202
01:19:05,110 --> 01:19:03,440
make a list of these

2203
01:19:07,110 --> 01:19:05,120
and then you can sort the list by just

2204
01:19:08,550 --> 01:19:07,120
applying occam's razor to any two of

2205
01:19:10,310 --> 01:19:08,560
these things and you say you've got at

2206
01:19:12,709 --> 01:19:10,320
the top of the list you've got say a

2207
01:19:13,910 --> 01:19:12,719
balloon or a fairy and you think which

2208
01:19:15,030 --> 01:19:13,920
one of those is more likely you know

2209
01:19:17,110 --> 01:19:15,040
it's going to be the balloon so i'm

2210
01:19:19,590 --> 01:19:17,120
going to stick the balloon on top and

2211
01:19:21,030 --> 01:19:19,600
the ferry moves down the list and you do

2212
01:19:23,030 --> 01:19:21,040
what's called a bubble sort where you

2213
01:19:24,950 --> 01:19:23,040
just keep doing this until the list is

2214
01:19:27,510 --> 01:19:24,960
in order and it's quite a

2215
01:19:29,110 --> 01:19:27,520
straightforward system and it just means

2216
01:19:31,830 --> 01:19:29,120
that you

2217
01:19:33,830 --> 01:19:31,840
get a good idea of the range of

2218
01:19:36,390 --> 01:19:33,840
possibilities

2219
01:19:38,229 --> 01:19:36,400
now when something's unknown

2220
01:19:40,470 --> 01:19:38,239
it doesn't mean that you don't have any

2221
01:19:42,790 --> 01:19:40,480
idea what it might be it means that you

2222
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:42,800
you're not really narrowing in on one

2223
01:19:47,030 --> 01:19:44,880
explanation there's a bunch of possible

2224
01:19:49,430 --> 01:19:47,040
explanations but you never want to rule

2225
01:19:51,830 --> 01:19:49,440
anything out so you always keep things

2226
01:19:53,750 --> 01:19:51,840
on the list that are a bit less likely

2227
01:19:55,750 --> 01:19:53,760
uh but you know usually what will happen

2228
01:19:57,189 --> 01:19:55,760
is something will bubble to the top

2229
01:19:59,030 --> 01:19:57,199
but you've always got to keep revisiting

2230
01:20:01,270 --> 01:19:59,040
all these other things on the list

2231
01:20:03,669 --> 01:20:01,280
and then you you get new information you

2232
01:20:05,110 --> 01:20:03,679
get new data or you perform experiments

2233
01:20:07,830 --> 01:20:05,120
you try to figure out like if i if i

2234
01:20:09,750 --> 01:20:07,840
hold my camera this way will this white

2235
01:20:12,390 --> 01:20:09,760
dot in the sky move in the same way that

2236
01:20:15,110 --> 01:20:12,400
it does in this this video and if it

2237
01:20:16,950 --> 01:20:15,120
does then perhaps two things will flop

2238
01:20:18,790 --> 01:20:16,960
flip positions in the list and perhaps

2239
01:20:22,229 --> 01:20:18,800
they won't but as you get more and more

2240
01:20:24,550 --> 01:20:22,239
data coming in uh the list may change

2241
01:20:26,070 --> 01:20:24,560
and things may separate out more and

2242
01:20:28,629 --> 01:20:26,080
then one thing may become much more

2243
01:20:30,310 --> 01:20:28,639
clearer as the most likely explanation

2244
01:20:32,709 --> 01:20:30,320
but it's actually quite rare for you to

2245
01:20:33,669 --> 01:20:32,719
be able to eliminate things

2246
01:20:36,390 --> 01:20:33,679
and

2247
01:20:38,790 --> 01:20:36,400
i i try to shy away from premature

2248
01:20:41,350 --> 01:20:38,800
elimination of hypotheses

2249
01:20:42,950 --> 01:20:41,360
and keep everything on the table and

2250
01:20:45,189 --> 01:20:42,960
then just keep

2251
01:20:46,070 --> 01:20:45,199
getting more data

2252
01:20:47,510 --> 01:20:46,080
uh

2253
01:20:50,149 --> 01:20:47,520
seeing how the list changes and that's

2254
01:20:51,590 --> 01:20:50,159
basically my my methodology

2255
01:20:53,189 --> 01:20:51,600
uh if you

2256
01:20:54,390 --> 01:20:53,199
kind of ignore all the the other stuff

2257
01:20:56,709 --> 01:20:54,400
which is

2258
01:20:58,870 --> 01:20:56,719
stuff from experience you know the it's

2259
01:21:00,950 --> 01:20:58,880
difficult for someone to come in who

2260
01:21:03,030 --> 01:21:00,960
knows nothing at all about analyzing

2261
01:21:05,030 --> 01:21:03,040
photos and videos and your 3d

2262
01:21:08,149 --> 01:21:05,040
trajectories and then say

2263
01:21:12,390 --> 01:21:10,149
it'd be very complicated and tedious

2264
01:21:14,070 --> 01:21:12,400
thing for me to describe but the basic

2265
01:21:15,669 --> 01:21:14,080
thing is let's see do you recognize

2266
01:21:18,229 --> 01:21:15,679
things and think of possible

2267
01:21:20,149 --> 01:21:18,239
explanations make a list and when new

2268
01:21:22,390 --> 01:21:20,159
data comes in revise the list and never

2269
01:21:24,550 --> 01:21:22,400
take anything off the list

2270
01:21:28,070 --> 01:21:24,560
interesting right and of course it's not

2271
01:21:29,830 --> 01:21:28,080
perfect but um and ufos tend to be one

2272
01:21:32,790 --> 01:21:29,840
of the most rebellious things out there

2273
01:21:34,629 --> 01:21:32,800
when it comes to that but um yeah i mean

2274
01:21:38,470 --> 01:21:34,639
if you had a very simple

2275
01:21:39,910 --> 01:21:38,480
that you could apply to every single

2276
01:21:41,430 --> 01:21:39,920
case

2277
01:21:42,390 --> 01:21:41,440
then you know we wouldn't be in this

2278
01:21:43,590 --> 01:21:42,400
situation

2279
01:21:48,470 --> 01:21:43,600
we

2280
01:21:50,790 --> 01:21:48,480
information zone the

2281
01:21:52,790 --> 01:21:50,800
a ufo is only a ufo because it's it's

2282
01:21:53,990 --> 01:21:52,800
ambiguous data

2283
01:21:55,430 --> 01:21:54,000
and if you've got something that's

2284
01:21:57,830 --> 01:21:55,440
ambiguous data that means there's

2285
01:21:58,709 --> 01:21:57,840
multiple possible explanations

2286
01:22:00,790 --> 01:21:58,719
and

2287
01:22:03,270 --> 01:22:00,800
there it might be that there's an

2288
01:22:05,110 --> 01:22:03,280
unknown explanation as is the most the

2289
01:22:07,270 --> 01:22:05,120
most likely thing here some something

2290
01:22:09,590 --> 01:22:07,280
else is the most likely thing if you you

2291
01:22:13,270 --> 01:22:09,600
can't figure out like if we actually had

2292
01:22:16,790 --> 01:22:13,280
sensor data and and video that showed a

2293
01:22:19,669 --> 01:22:16,800
uh i don't know 40 foot wide tic tac

2294
01:22:21,830 --> 01:22:19,679
moving across the ocean surface

2295
01:22:24,709 --> 01:22:21,840
then that would be very difficult for me

2296
01:22:27,750 --> 01:22:24,719
to explain with a list of possibilities

2297
01:22:29,189 --> 01:22:27,760
and right there then something else is

2298
01:22:31,270 --> 01:22:29,199
going to be the number one explanation

2299
01:22:33,110 --> 01:22:31,280
and what is that something else it's a

2300
01:22:35,590 --> 01:22:33,120
an advanced technology drone or is an

2301
01:22:37,990 --> 01:22:35,600
alien spaceship those things will

2302
01:22:40,790 --> 01:22:38,000
leap to the top but most of the time the

2303
01:22:44,390 --> 01:22:40,800
data is very ambiguous we don't have

2304
01:22:47,030 --> 01:22:44,400
high fidelity multi-sensor data

2305
01:22:47,910 --> 01:22:47,040
of something doing something amazing we

2306
01:22:54,149 --> 01:22:47,920
have

2307
01:22:56,390 --> 01:22:54,159
eyewitness accounts from uh 20 years ago

2308
01:22:58,950 --> 01:22:56,400
uh so there's always going to be this

2309
01:23:01,510 --> 01:22:58,960
these these ambiguous cases

2310
01:23:03,750 --> 01:23:01,520
where making a list of possibilities is

2311
01:23:06,310 --> 01:23:03,760
really what you should be doing

2312
01:23:09,350 --> 01:23:06,320
yeah and i know you've stressed too like

2313
01:23:12,070 --> 01:23:09,360
the clear photos of ufos are the boring

2314
01:23:14,790 --> 01:23:12,080
ones it's the ambiguity that excites

2315
01:23:16,870 --> 01:23:14,800
people most and um that's tough because

2316
01:23:18,229 --> 01:23:16,880
yeah you want it to be

2317
01:23:20,390 --> 01:23:18,239
why is that

2318
01:23:22,950 --> 01:23:20,400
a clear photo of a ufo

2319
01:23:25,510 --> 01:23:22,960
should be the exciting one but you know

2320
01:23:27,510 --> 01:23:25,520
when it's clear you can identify it it's

2321
01:23:30,149 --> 01:23:27,520
not unidentified anymore things

2322
01:23:32,470 --> 01:23:30,159
ambiguity is

2323
01:23:34,470 --> 01:23:32,480
ufos it should be we should rename it

2324
01:23:37,350 --> 01:23:34,480
ambiguous flying objects

2325
01:23:39,910 --> 01:23:39,030
because that's that's the issue here

2326
01:23:41,830 --> 01:23:39,920
it's not just simply they're

2327
01:23:43,910 --> 01:23:41,840
unidentified like it's it's a plane i

2328
01:23:47,270 --> 01:23:43,920
don't know what type of plane it is

2329
01:23:49,830 --> 01:23:47,280
we no idea what it is at all is it

2330
01:23:52,229 --> 01:23:49,840
a flying object is it an optical effects

2331
01:23:53,110 --> 01:23:52,239
is it an illusion is it

2332
01:23:55,430 --> 01:23:53,120
um

2333
01:23:57,189 --> 01:23:55,440
is it really far away and very large or

2334
01:23:59,110 --> 01:23:57,199
is it closer and is it small it's just

2335
01:24:00,830 --> 01:23:59,120
it's ambiguous it's ambiguous flying

2336
01:24:02,390 --> 01:24:00,840
objects and it's

2337
01:24:04,470 --> 01:24:02,400
uh

2338
01:24:05,990 --> 01:24:04,480
they're they're always going to exist

2339
01:24:07,750 --> 01:24:06,000
it's impossible to get rid of ambiguous

2340
01:24:08,870 --> 01:24:07,760
flying objects because

2341
01:24:10,550 --> 01:24:08,880
there's you know what no matter which

2342
01:24:11,669 --> 01:24:10,560
camera you have there's always going to

2343
01:24:14,310 --> 01:24:11,679
be something that's just a little bit

2344
01:24:15,910 --> 01:24:14,320
further away than the resolvable range

2345
01:24:18,390 --> 01:24:15,920
of that camera you know the project

2346
01:24:20,870 --> 01:24:18,400
galileo is going to return photographs

2347
01:24:23,110 --> 01:24:20,880
of things that are 20 miles away

2348
01:24:24,709 --> 01:24:23,120
and they're just too far away to see the

2349
01:24:28,070 --> 01:24:24,719
details they're going to be it's going

2350
01:24:30,629 --> 01:24:28,080
to give you more ambiguous photographs

2351
01:24:32,870 --> 01:24:30,639
yeah and you know i made peace a long

2352
01:24:35,430 --> 01:24:32,880
time ago mick that uh i'm probably never

2353
01:24:36,709 --> 01:24:35,440
gonna know what ufos are because like

2354
01:24:38,790 --> 01:24:36,719
you said they

2355
01:24:40,790 --> 01:24:38,800
are ambiguous and they always will be

2356
01:24:42,830 --> 01:24:40,800
but hey i'm enjoying the journey it's

2357
01:24:45,270 --> 01:24:42,840
fun um i've got a few little fun

2358
01:24:47,430 --> 01:24:45,280
questions uh i could shoot at your rapid

2359
01:24:49,590 --> 01:24:47,440
fire if you don't mind and uh before we

2360
01:24:52,070 --> 01:24:49,600
wrap things up here um

2361
01:24:54,950 --> 01:24:52,080
so uplifting tweets on twitter and i'll

2362
01:24:56,070 --> 01:24:54,960
actually lump this with the next one i

2363
01:24:58,229 --> 01:24:56,080
jove

2364
01:25:01,030 --> 01:24:58,239
zero zero one on twitter they ask who's

2365
01:25:03,350 --> 01:25:01,040
your favorite personality in the ufo

2366
01:25:07,750 --> 01:25:03,360
twitter world or community and what are

2367
01:25:11,189 --> 01:25:07,760
your favorite ufo books if there are

2368
01:25:12,790 --> 01:25:11,199
uh well my favorite ufo book is

2369
01:25:15,189 --> 01:25:12,800
the ufo handbook

2370
01:25:17,350 --> 01:25:15,199
by alan hendry which was published in i

2371
01:25:19,830 --> 01:25:17,360
think 1977

2372
01:25:22,310 --> 01:25:19,840
and i like it because it's it's a great

2373
01:25:24,149 --> 01:25:22,320
in 1979 it's a great kind of

2374
01:25:26,070 --> 01:25:24,159
investigation of

2375
01:25:28,070 --> 01:25:26,080
the state of ufology at the time and it

2376
01:25:31,110 --> 01:25:28,080
was written by a guy who was working

2377
01:25:32,870 --> 01:25:31,120
with with uh alan j allen what was it uh

2378
01:25:34,790 --> 01:25:32,880
you know jay allen heineck

2379
01:25:36,550 --> 01:25:34,800
director of the center of ufo studies at

2380
01:25:38,149 --> 01:25:36,560
the u.s center of ufo studies and he's a

2381
01:25:39,510 --> 01:25:38,159
guy who's you know he's interviewed a

2382
01:25:41,910 --> 01:25:39,520
thousand people

2383
01:25:43,590 --> 01:25:41,920
uh about the ufos and it's got all this

2384
01:25:45,189 --> 01:25:43,600
loads of really interesting stuff in it

2385
01:25:45,910 --> 01:25:45,199
and it's got like checklists for what to

2386
01:25:47,750 --> 01:25:45,920
do

2387
01:25:49,430 --> 01:25:47,760
when you see a ufo and all these

2388
01:25:52,229 --> 01:25:49,440
different individual cases and then all

2389
01:25:53,590 --> 01:25:52,239
these these ifos that that they have

2390
01:25:55,270 --> 01:25:53,600
like he has photographs of things that

2391
01:25:56,790 --> 01:25:55,280
are identified

2392
01:25:57,750 --> 01:25:56,800
and i find it just

2393
01:26:00,070 --> 01:25:57,760
very interesting because it's very

2394
01:26:02,709 --> 01:26:00,080
useful because it covers a lot of

2395
01:26:04,310 --> 01:26:02,719
really good data really good information

2396
01:26:05,189 --> 01:26:04,320
but it's also just fascinating because

2397
01:26:09,669 --> 01:26:05,199
it's

2398
01:26:11,350 --> 01:26:09,679
1979

2399
01:26:12,629 --> 01:26:11,360
and what is that that's like over 40

2400
01:26:14,550 --> 01:26:12,639
years ago

2401
01:26:15,669 --> 01:26:14,560
it feels like it could have been written

2402
01:26:18,470 --> 01:26:15,679
this year

2403
01:26:19,830 --> 01:26:18,480
it feels like it's a book that's

2404
01:26:21,350 --> 01:26:19,840
you know he's just describing the

2405
01:26:22,790 --> 01:26:21,360
current situation the only real

2406
01:26:23,990 --> 01:26:22,800
difference is that we have a lot more

2407
01:26:25,990 --> 01:26:24,000
cameras now

2408
01:26:27,350 --> 01:26:26,000
so that's uh you know the one the one

2409
01:26:29,830 --> 01:26:27,360
change that we have but everything else

2410
01:26:31,270 --> 01:26:29,840
in it seems very very similar so

2411
01:26:32,790 --> 01:26:31,280
highly recommended book i don't think

2412
01:26:34,790 --> 01:26:32,800
it's in print anymore hence i've got

2413
01:26:38,149 --> 01:26:34,800
this crappy old library copy that i

2414
01:26:40,470 --> 01:26:38,159
bought on uh online somewhere

2415
01:26:42,629 --> 01:26:40,480
and my favorite people in

2416
01:26:44,950 --> 01:26:42,639
uh

2417
01:26:47,830 --> 01:26:44,960
in ufology i think that the crowd at the

2418
01:26:51,750 --> 01:26:47,840
unidentified celebrity review they're uh

2419
01:26:52,870 --> 01:26:51,760
a lot of fun lewis and michael and uh

2420
01:26:54,550 --> 01:26:52,880
rather

2421
01:26:56,870 --> 01:26:54,560
and the others

2422
01:26:58,229 --> 01:26:56,880
they're they put on a good show

2423
01:26:59,990 --> 01:26:58,239
but that's gonna be interesting itself

2424
01:27:01,750 --> 01:27:00,000
isn't it it's like they put in a good

2425
01:27:04,470 --> 01:27:01,760
show it's all great entertainment and

2426
01:27:06,550 --> 01:27:04,480
everything but is it what is it actually

2427
01:27:08,470 --> 01:27:06,560
progressing the scientific research into

2428
01:27:09,830 --> 01:27:08,480
into ufology

2429
01:27:12,470 --> 01:27:09,840
uh yeah

2430
01:27:13,350 --> 01:27:12,480
there's lots of characters in in the ufo

2431
01:27:14,709 --> 01:27:13,360
scene

2432
01:27:17,030 --> 01:27:14,719
and

2433
01:27:19,590 --> 01:27:17,040
yeah ufo jesus

2434
01:27:22,229 --> 01:27:19,600
uh ryan robbins

2435
01:27:24,870 --> 01:27:22,239
uh he's a good guy

2436
01:27:27,189 --> 01:27:24,880
i love him yeah yeah yeah yeah and and

2437
01:27:29,430 --> 01:27:27,199
and lots of people like it's a fun

2438
01:27:32,950 --> 01:27:29,440
community which is a blessing and a

2439
01:27:34,870 --> 01:27:32,960
curse in a way if you've got a community

2440
01:27:36,550 --> 01:27:34,880
you kind of get this little bit of group

2441
01:27:38,149 --> 01:27:36,560
think i think

2442
01:27:39,669 --> 01:27:38,159
and you get these

2443
01:27:41,990 --> 01:27:39,679
you know you get you get cliques and

2444
01:27:43,189 --> 01:27:42,000
schisms as well where people they form

2445
01:27:44,629 --> 01:27:43,199
groups and then

2446
01:27:46,950 --> 01:27:44,639
they start arguing with each other and

2447
01:27:48,709 --> 01:27:46,960
they break up

2448
01:27:50,790 --> 01:27:48,719
and someone does something in the girl

2449
01:27:52,709 --> 01:27:50,800
from one direction and it becomes more

2450
01:27:54,070 --> 01:27:52,719
about people than it does about the

2451
01:27:56,070 --> 01:27:54,080
science which i think is a bit of a

2452
01:27:57,430 --> 01:27:56,080
problem and people start

2453
01:27:59,350 --> 01:27:57,440
being

2454
01:28:01,430 --> 01:27:59,360
advocates for one particular

2455
01:28:04,470 --> 01:28:01,440
interpretation you know some people

2456
01:28:06,070 --> 01:28:04,480
think um what's his name that's uh

2457
01:28:09,430 --> 01:28:06,080
oh i can't remember his name now the guy

2458
01:28:17,669 --> 01:28:09,440
in the desert uh

2459
01:28:21,030 --> 01:28:19,030
becomes a polarizing figure and you get

2460
01:28:23,030 --> 01:28:21,040
the bottlers are fans versus the you

2461
01:28:26,709 --> 01:28:23,040
know people who think bob bob bazaar is

2462
01:28:28,709 --> 01:28:26,719
a hoaxer uh people and it just becomes

2463
01:28:31,669 --> 01:28:28,719
yeah you get this arguing over over

2464
01:28:33,110 --> 01:28:31,679
minutiae i mean i i saw

2465
01:28:35,030 --> 01:28:33,120
you know a lot of these podcasts like

2466
01:28:36,709 --> 01:28:35,040
like this one that becomes like

2467
01:28:39,430 --> 01:28:36,719
discussing

2468
01:28:41,030 --> 01:28:39,440
individuals like like uh valet and

2469
01:28:44,070 --> 01:28:41,040
things like that and

2470
01:28:45,590 --> 01:28:44,080
the background of louis elizondo and

2471
01:28:48,070 --> 01:28:45,600
yeah we really should be getting into

2472
01:28:50,149 --> 01:28:48,080
the science the actual nuts and bolts

2473
01:28:52,070 --> 01:28:50,159
what are these what's the data that we

2474
01:28:53,350 --> 01:28:52,080
have what does the data show let's do

2475
01:28:55,669 --> 01:28:53,360
the math

2476
01:28:57,830 --> 01:28:55,679
uh and let's let's let's move on let's

2477
01:29:00,470 --> 01:28:57,840
be productive and it's become a bit of a

2478
01:29:02,709 --> 01:29:00,480
show i think uh which you know it's fine

2479
01:29:04,629 --> 01:29:02,719
but it's

2480
01:29:06,790 --> 01:29:04,639
it's not really my scene

2481
01:29:08,830 --> 01:29:06,800
yeah i like analyzing videos

2482
01:29:09,990 --> 01:29:08,840
i get that you know and

2483
01:29:11,950 --> 01:29:10,000
i uh

2484
01:29:15,669 --> 01:29:11,960
as someone who's like

2485
01:29:17,990 --> 01:29:15,679
240 episodes in or so like i am at least

2486
01:29:21,030 --> 01:29:18,000
here on somewhere in the skies trying to

2487
01:29:23,750 --> 01:29:21,040
make a stride to have a more scientific

2488
01:29:26,310 --> 01:29:23,760
um approach and talk to more scientists

2489
01:29:27,669 --> 01:29:26,320
because it's so hard mick i've noticed

2490
01:29:30,070 --> 01:29:27,679
because you have someone like the late

2491
01:29:31,430 --> 01:29:30,080
stanton friedman um who was a huge

2492
01:29:34,790 --> 01:29:31,440
advocate of the

2493
01:29:38,070 --> 01:29:34,800
um eth hypothesis when it came to the

2494
01:29:39,110 --> 01:29:38,080
source of ufos saying skeptics will when

2495
01:29:40,709 --> 01:29:39,120
they can't

2496
01:29:43,990 --> 01:29:40,719
you know argue

2497
01:29:45,510 --> 01:29:44,000
the data they'll attack the person um

2498
01:29:47,750 --> 01:29:45,520
but then there's the flip side of that

2499
01:29:49,750 --> 01:29:47,760
as well where a lot of this does become

2500
01:29:52,229 --> 01:29:49,760
just talking about the people instead of

2501
01:29:53,830 --> 01:29:52,239
the actual data so where is that that

2502
01:29:55,350 --> 01:29:53,840
middle ground i'm still trying to find

2503
01:29:57,510 --> 01:29:55,360
it here on someone this is an

2504
01:29:59,750 --> 01:29:57,520
interesting thing

2505
01:30:01,990 --> 01:29:59,760
yeah the there's an issue like the

2506
01:30:03,270 --> 01:30:02,000
ad-hom attacks ad hominem attacks where

2507
01:30:05,669 --> 01:30:03,280
you're attacking the person instead of

2508
01:30:06,709 --> 01:30:05,679
the argument big no-no we should never

2509
01:30:08,470 --> 01:30:06,719
do it

2510
01:30:10,310 --> 01:30:08,480
uh but there's there's the kind of the

2511
01:30:12,870 --> 01:30:10,320
opposite of that where

2512
01:30:14,709 --> 01:30:12,880
we have this argument from authority

2513
01:30:16,390 --> 01:30:14,719
where someone makes a claim because

2514
01:30:19,189 --> 01:30:16,400
they're an expert or they have a

2515
01:30:20,310 --> 01:30:19,199
specific type of experience or because

2516
01:30:22,390 --> 01:30:20,320
you know they are the ones who were

2517
01:30:24,550 --> 01:30:22,400
there and saw something

2518
01:30:26,870 --> 01:30:24,560
so if someone is making an argument

2519
01:30:29,189 --> 01:30:26,880
that's saying you know i am an expert

2520
01:30:31,590 --> 01:30:29,199
therefore this is correct

2521
01:30:32,709 --> 01:30:31,600
then you kind of

2522
01:30:34,550 --> 01:30:32,719
have to

2523
01:30:35,750 --> 01:30:34,560
address that issue are they actually an

2524
01:30:38,470 --> 01:30:35,760
expert

2525
01:30:39,990 --> 01:30:38,480
it's if they're not actually presenting

2526
01:30:43,350 --> 01:30:40,000
a reason

2527
01:30:45,030 --> 01:30:43,360
why they think it's correct then i think

2528
01:30:47,189 --> 01:30:45,040
it does become a valid

2529
01:30:49,189 --> 01:30:47,199
uh point that you have to counter you

2530
01:30:51,430 --> 01:30:49,199
know um

2531
01:30:54,149 --> 01:30:51,440
david fraver said

2532
01:30:56,870 --> 01:30:54,159
said said he he knew he was right about

2533
01:30:58,950 --> 01:30:56,880
the nimitz encounter what he saw was

2534
01:31:00,709 --> 01:30:58,960
this this object that circled him and

2535
01:31:02,950 --> 01:31:00,719
flew away rapidly

2536
01:31:03,910 --> 01:31:02,960
because he had 12 years experience

2537
01:31:05,350 --> 01:31:03,920
flying

2538
01:31:07,750 --> 01:31:05,360
planes

2539
01:31:08,550 --> 01:31:07,760
and but when he was asked like how did

2540
01:31:14,390 --> 01:31:08,560
he

2541
01:31:15,430 --> 01:31:14,400
said you know it's basically experience

2542
01:31:16,550 --> 01:31:15,440
so

2543
01:31:19,830 --> 01:31:16,560
questioning

2544
01:31:23,430 --> 01:31:19,840
that assertion i think is a valid thing

2545
01:31:25,830 --> 01:31:23,440
you you can't just go on the data if p

2546
01:31:28,390 --> 01:31:25,840
other people are making

2547
01:31:30,390 --> 01:31:28,400
uh arguments that do not rely on data or

2548
01:31:33,110 --> 01:31:30,400
do not actually have any logic in them

2549
01:31:36,950 --> 01:31:33,120
and they're saying oh i know what i saw

2550
01:31:39,590 --> 01:31:36,960
if someone says they know what they saw

2551
01:31:41,430 --> 01:31:39,600
it still is a valid point to question

2552
01:31:44,070 --> 01:31:41,440
that they might not

2553
01:31:45,910 --> 01:31:44,080
have seen what they thought they saw i'm

2554
01:31:47,750 --> 01:31:45,920
sure that they're being honest

2555
01:31:49,430 --> 01:31:47,760
i'm sure their recollection is that they

2556
01:31:51,750 --> 01:31:49,440
saw this particular thing in a certain

2557
01:31:53,350 --> 01:31:51,760
way but their interpretation might not

2558
01:31:55,910 --> 01:31:53,360
be correct and their memory might not be

2559
01:31:57,590 --> 01:31:55,920
correct and it is it is a valid thing to

2560
01:31:58,390 --> 01:31:57,600
go on that but you know when you get

2561
01:32:01,990 --> 01:31:58,400
into

2562
01:32:04,229 --> 01:32:02,000
deeper things like you know lou elizondo

2563
01:32:06,149 --> 01:32:04,239
uh is it good that he uses a sock puppet

2564
01:32:08,070 --> 01:32:06,159
account on twitter or not things like

2565
01:32:09,830 --> 01:32:08,080
that it's just like you know

2566
01:32:11,669 --> 01:32:09,840
why even

2567
01:32:12,870 --> 01:32:11,679
talk about that it just becomes this big

2568
01:32:14,149 --> 01:32:12,880
drama

2569
01:32:16,149 --> 01:32:14,159
uh that

2570
01:32:19,110 --> 01:32:16,159
you know people are talking about the

2571
01:32:21,030 --> 01:32:19,120
person without even getting close to the

2572
01:32:23,189 --> 01:32:21,040
actual subject

2573
01:32:25,590 --> 01:32:23,199
which is you know are these ufos

2574
01:32:27,189 --> 01:32:25,600
performing amazing maneuvers and that's

2575
01:32:29,189 --> 01:32:27,199
based on the data

2576
01:32:31,430 --> 01:32:29,199
yep i think a lot of people get involved

2577
01:32:33,910 --> 01:32:31,440
in this ufo twitter sphere because of

2578
01:32:36,390 --> 01:32:33,920
the drama like it gives them something

2579
01:32:38,790 --> 01:32:36,400
to do for the day and yeah look we're

2580
01:32:41,990 --> 01:32:38,800
all creatures of we like drama there's a

2581
01:32:44,470 --> 01:32:42,000
reason you know theater exists and a

2582
01:32:47,590 --> 01:32:44,480
reason we like arguments and everything

2583
01:32:49,510 --> 01:32:47,600
um but yeah i think that often clouds

2584
01:32:52,550 --> 01:32:49,520
the actual discussions

2585
01:32:54,310 --> 01:32:52,560
um being had and it like you said it

2586
01:32:56,070 --> 01:32:54,320
becomes way more about that and it

2587
01:32:58,149 --> 01:32:56,080
shouldn't be it really shouldn't be and

2588
01:33:00,470 --> 01:32:58,159
this goes for any community or

2589
01:33:01,910 --> 01:33:00,480
subculture like it's this isn't just

2590
01:33:04,149 --> 01:33:01,920
ufology i don't want people to think

2591
01:33:05,750 --> 01:33:04,159
we're bashing just the ufo community

2592
01:33:07,990 --> 01:33:05,760
this i'm sure this happens in the

2593
01:33:09,430 --> 01:33:08,000
skeptic world as well where you start

2594
01:33:11,590 --> 01:33:09,440
attacking the person instead of what

2595
01:33:13,510 --> 01:33:11,600
they're actually bringing forward yeah

2596
01:33:15,189 --> 01:33:13,520
in the skeptic community there's a big

2597
01:33:16,870 --> 01:33:15,199
issue with uh

2598
01:33:19,189 --> 01:33:16,880
you know stuff like

2599
01:33:21,110 --> 01:33:19,199
political correctness and uh gender

2600
01:33:23,510 --> 01:33:21,120
issues and things like that and this

2601
01:33:25,590 --> 01:33:23,520
kind of camps you know the grumpy old

2602
01:33:27,590 --> 01:33:25,600
man on one side and saying why can't we

2603
01:33:29,030 --> 01:33:27,600
have things like the way they were

2604
01:33:31,110 --> 01:33:29,040
and then you've got the younger crowd

2605
01:33:33,030 --> 01:33:31,120
coming in and saying uh you know you got

2606
01:33:34,790 --> 01:33:33,040
to use the right pronouns uh things like

2607
01:33:37,110 --> 01:33:34,800
that and then people start arguing about

2608
01:33:39,270 --> 01:33:37,120
that you know the issues of of gender

2609
01:33:40,950 --> 01:33:39,280
equity and gender identity within the

2610
01:33:42,470 --> 01:33:40,960
skeptical community

2611
01:33:44,310 --> 01:33:42,480
and it's kind of like is this a

2612
01:33:45,990 --> 01:33:44,320
distraction but you know this they're

2613
01:33:47,750 --> 01:33:46,000
raising valid points but now we're just

2614
01:33:49,510 --> 01:33:47,760
talking about

2615
01:33:51,270 --> 01:33:49,520
the social aspect of it and the

2616
01:33:53,430 --> 01:33:51,280
political aspect of it and you know

2617
01:33:55,189 --> 01:33:53,440
what's going on in this organization and

2618
01:33:57,430 --> 01:33:55,199
how how should skeptics present

2619
01:33:59,030 --> 01:33:57,440
themselves in public and what what issue

2620
01:34:00,870 --> 01:33:59,040
should we address

2621
01:34:03,430 --> 01:34:00,880
whereas yeah i'm a nuts and bolts guy i

2622
01:34:05,590 --> 01:34:03,440
like to look at videos of ufos and

2623
01:34:07,830 --> 01:34:05,600
figure out what they are i like to dig

2624
01:34:10,390 --> 01:34:07,840
into claims that people make about

2625
01:34:11,669 --> 01:34:10,400
vaccine statistics and see whether the

2626
01:34:13,750 --> 01:34:11,679
numbers add up you know i like to do

2627
01:34:15,590 --> 01:34:13,760
that type of thing and this this other

2628
01:34:18,149 --> 01:34:15,600
stuff is it's a bit of a um a

2629
01:34:20,310 --> 01:34:18,159
distraction not to say that there are

2630
01:34:21,430 --> 01:34:20,320
people aren't raising valid issues but

2631
01:34:23,590 --> 01:34:21,440
right

2632
01:34:26,950 --> 01:34:23,600
you know it's not helping

2633
01:34:29,750 --> 01:34:26,960
uh figure out what ufos are

2634
01:34:31,350 --> 01:34:29,760
right and it transcends the topic you're

2635
01:34:33,030 --> 01:34:31,360
ultimately kind of brought everyone

2636
01:34:36,149 --> 01:34:33,040
together you know yeah of course we

2637
01:34:39,110 --> 01:34:36,159
should care about people's um you know

2638
01:34:40,950 --> 01:34:39,120
issues with race gender sexuality like

2639
01:34:42,629 --> 01:34:40,960
there's a time and a place for that and

2640
01:34:43,430 --> 01:34:42,639
there is a time and a place for that in

2641
01:34:45,669 --> 01:34:43,440
these

2642
01:34:47,990 --> 01:34:45,679
fields but like you said like

2643
01:34:49,990 --> 01:34:48,000
you that's not what you

2644
01:34:51,910 --> 01:34:50,000
focus on and i'm sure you have your own

2645
01:34:53,350 --> 01:34:51,920
personal thoughts and beliefs and

2646
01:34:55,910 --> 01:34:53,360
convictions when it comes to all that

2647
01:34:58,870 --> 01:34:55,920
but like you said that's not why you're

2648
01:35:01,830 --> 01:34:58,880
in the ufo world and why you're having

2649
01:35:03,189 --> 01:35:01,840
these conversations so i i get that i

2650
01:35:05,910 --> 01:35:03,199
get that um

2651
01:35:08,470 --> 01:35:05,920
well i have one more fun question to

2652
01:35:11,750 --> 01:35:08,480
wrap things up here mick um

2653
01:35:14,390 --> 01:35:11,760
let's see smiles defy gravity on reddit

2654
01:35:16,950 --> 01:35:14,400
asks do you have any plans to make any

2655
01:35:19,189 --> 01:35:16,960
more computer games or video games and

2656
01:35:22,070 --> 01:35:19,199
if so i'd personally like to see him

2657
01:35:24,550 --> 01:35:22,080
create a good ufo simulation game like

2658
01:35:26,229 --> 01:35:24,560
roswell where you play the e.t pilot who

2659
01:35:29,750 --> 01:35:26,239
survives

2660
01:35:36,870 --> 01:35:33,590
yeah i i think what might be likely is

2661
01:35:38,950 --> 01:35:36,880
i would do some kind of ufo scenario

2662
01:35:40,470 --> 01:35:38,960
recreation software i'm kind of

2663
01:35:44,149 --> 01:35:40,480
interested in getting into virtual

2664
01:35:47,590 --> 01:35:44,159
reality because i think a huge issue

2665
01:35:49,510 --> 01:35:47,600
of of ufos is this disconnect between

2666
01:35:51,590 --> 01:35:49,520
seeing things on a two-dimensional

2667
01:35:53,590 --> 01:35:51,600
screen and the actual reality of what

2668
01:35:56,390 --> 01:35:53,600
people actually experience

2669
01:35:59,189 --> 01:35:56,400
and if you can instead of recreating an

2670
01:36:01,510 --> 01:35:59,199
experience by drawing diagrams

2671
01:36:03,910 --> 01:36:01,520
and or even making a 3d simulation if

2672
01:36:05,590 --> 01:36:03,920
you can do it in virtual reality

2673
01:36:07,830 --> 01:36:05,600
uh i think

2674
01:36:09,510 --> 01:36:07,840
that would be super useful

2675
01:36:11,030 --> 01:36:09,520
for people getting perspective on what

2676
01:36:13,350 --> 01:36:11,040
actually happened

2677
01:36:17,830 --> 01:36:13,360
you you go back to some of the

2678
01:36:19,109 --> 01:36:17,840
i say the the classic swamp gas um thing

2679
01:36:22,310 --> 01:36:19,119
back from

2680
01:36:23,990 --> 01:36:22,320
uh i believe it was alan heineck

2681
01:36:26,470 --> 01:36:24,000
gave it an explanation of a couple of

2682
01:36:27,750 --> 01:36:26,480
sightings as being possibly swamp gas

2683
01:36:29,990 --> 01:36:27,760
and

2684
01:36:32,950 --> 01:36:30,000
uh part of that was because he kind of

2685
01:36:35,430 --> 01:36:32,960
triangulated where this this light was

2686
01:36:36,830 --> 01:36:35,440
and in one case at least it was it was

2687
01:36:39,590 --> 01:36:36,840
over some swamp

2688
01:36:41,590 --> 01:36:39,600
area uh but you know people took this

2689
01:36:43,669 --> 01:36:41,600
more generally and they they

2690
01:36:46,390 --> 01:36:43,679
they thought it sounded ridiculous but

2691
01:36:48,950 --> 01:36:46,400
perhaps if you could actually recreate

2692
01:36:50,870 --> 01:36:48,960
in virtual reality what the people in

2693
01:36:52,790 --> 01:36:50,880
that farmhouse saw and the people on the

2694
01:36:54,790 --> 01:36:52,800
other side of the swamp saw and then do

2695
01:36:56,790 --> 01:36:54,800
things where you can kind of fly around

2696
01:36:58,629 --> 01:36:56,800
uh the entire scene

2697
01:37:00,629 --> 01:36:58,639
and view it in 3d

2698
01:37:02,950 --> 01:37:00,639
you might understand how

2699
01:37:05,990 --> 01:37:02,960
it could possibly have been such a thing

2700
01:37:08,229 --> 01:37:06,000
or you go back to say the phoenix lights

2701
01:37:09,270 --> 01:37:08,239
uh you got video

2702
01:37:11,030 --> 01:37:09,280
of

2703
01:37:12,550 --> 01:37:11,040
you know these these lights over this

2704
01:37:15,350 --> 01:37:12,560
ridge of mountains

2705
01:37:18,550 --> 01:37:15,360
uh perhaps if you could simulate the

2706
01:37:21,189 --> 01:37:18,560
possible scenarios of like flares or

2707
01:37:22,310 --> 01:37:21,199
alien spaceships or secret technology

2708
01:37:23,910 --> 01:37:22,320
ships

2709
01:37:25,350 --> 01:37:23,920
in some kind of virtual reality

2710
01:37:27,830 --> 01:37:25,360
environments

2711
01:37:29,270 --> 01:37:27,840
you you might get a much better sense of

2712
01:37:30,310 --> 01:37:29,280
of what people

2713
01:37:31,830 --> 01:37:30,320
saw

2714
01:37:33,590 --> 01:37:31,840
people talk about a lot like something

2715
01:37:36,390 --> 01:37:33,600
flew overhead and they say it was the

2716
01:37:37,910 --> 01:37:36,400
size of a football field

2717
01:37:39,350 --> 01:37:37,920
when uh

2718
01:37:40,790 --> 01:37:39,360
it would be literally impossible for it

2719
01:37:42,149 --> 01:37:40,800
to be the size of a football field based

2720
01:37:43,189 --> 01:37:42,159
on on their actual description because

2721
01:37:44,629 --> 01:37:43,199
they're usually looking at something

2722
01:37:46,870 --> 01:37:44,639
that's fairly

2723
01:37:48,229 --> 01:37:46,880
small angularly but

2724
01:37:49,510 --> 01:37:48,239
you if you just got these verbal

2725
01:37:51,109 --> 01:37:49,520
descriptions

2726
01:37:52,870 --> 01:37:51,119
and you'd end up drawing diagrams of it

2727
01:37:54,550 --> 01:37:52,880
it's very hard but i think if you had

2728
01:37:57,109 --> 01:37:54,560
the virtual reality thing and you could

2729
01:37:59,109 --> 01:37:57,119
recreate what they actually saw

2730
01:38:01,669 --> 01:37:59,119
and get them involved in that that would

2731
01:38:03,350 --> 01:38:01,679
be a good way of of actually

2732
01:38:04,790 --> 01:38:03,360
getting a much better model of what

2733
01:38:06,390 --> 01:38:04,800
actually happened

2734
01:38:07,910 --> 01:38:06,400
and helping them understand what they

2735
01:38:08,950 --> 01:38:07,920
might have seen and helping other people

2736
01:38:11,669 --> 01:38:08,960
understand

2737
01:38:13,990 --> 01:38:11,679
what they might have seen so if i do any

2738
01:38:15,350 --> 01:38:14,000
uh ufo related programming i think it's

2739
01:38:18,870 --> 01:38:15,360
probably going to be

2740
01:38:20,070 --> 01:38:18,880
ufo virtual reality recreations

2741
01:38:20,950 --> 01:38:20,080
oh my god

2742
01:38:23,430 --> 01:38:20,960
like

2743
01:38:25,830 --> 01:38:23,440
electricity just searched through me the

2744
01:38:27,750 --> 01:38:25,840
excitement of that that that's genius

2745
01:38:30,629 --> 01:38:27,760
like talk about putting yourself in the

2746
01:38:33,350 --> 01:38:30,639
shoes of a witness like now you can have

2747
01:38:36,709 --> 01:38:33,360
that that concept take the data

2748
01:38:39,750 --> 01:38:36,719
testimony or the cockpit exactly and

2749
01:38:42,149 --> 01:38:39,760
create recreate that scenario obviously

2750
01:38:44,229 --> 01:38:42,159
it won't be perfect but it's fun

2751
01:38:46,070 --> 01:38:44,239
and it's a way to try to understand it

2752
01:38:48,870 --> 01:38:46,080
better i do you need to patent that

2753
01:38:52,149 --> 01:38:48,880
right now and i know you'll raise

2754
01:38:56,790 --> 01:38:52,159
millions to have that become a reality i

2755
01:38:59,990 --> 01:38:58,390
well mick this has been fascinating

2756
01:39:03,350 --> 01:39:00,000
you've been so gracious with your time

2757
01:39:05,910 --> 01:39:03,360
man um we covered a lot and i know

2758
01:39:07,990 --> 01:39:05,920
um there's a lot of questions we all

2759
01:39:09,510 --> 01:39:08,000
still have of um

2760
01:39:11,430 --> 01:39:09,520
you know all these videos that have come

2761
01:39:14,310 --> 01:39:11,440
out and everything and where this whole

2762
01:39:15,990 --> 01:39:14,320
ufo thing is heading but i just want to

2763
01:39:18,310 --> 01:39:16,000
thank you for the work you've done i

2764
01:39:20,709 --> 01:39:18,320
know you get a lot of a lot of flack in

2765
01:39:22,709 --> 01:39:20,719
the community and again i don't agree

2766
01:39:24,470 --> 01:39:22,719
with everything you've come up with but

2767
01:39:26,629 --> 01:39:24,480
neither do you agree with everything

2768
01:39:29,990 --> 01:39:26,639
everyone else has come up with but it's

2769
01:39:31,990 --> 01:39:30,000
essential what you're doing

2770
01:39:33,910 --> 01:39:32,000
yeah thank you and yeah i think what

2771
01:39:35,990 --> 01:39:33,920
what's really essential is

2772
01:39:37,910 --> 01:39:36,000
trying to have the dialogue with people

2773
01:39:38,950 --> 01:39:37,920
uh like i said earlier like if it's just

2774
01:39:40,790 --> 01:39:38,960
like

2775
01:39:42,390 --> 01:39:40,800
some guy making videos here and another

2776
01:39:44,629 --> 01:39:42,400
guy making videos there listen it's

2777
01:39:46,629 --> 01:39:44,639
always guys making these videos

2778
01:39:47,669 --> 01:39:46,639
um

2779
01:39:49,430 --> 01:39:47,679
it

2780
01:39:50,950 --> 01:39:49,440
we'd get a lot we'd be a lot more

2781
01:39:53,990 --> 01:39:50,960
productive if

2782
01:39:55,910 --> 01:39:54,000
opposing positions would actually get

2783
01:39:57,030 --> 01:39:55,920
together and discuss and that's that's

2784
01:39:58,950 --> 01:39:57,040
what i think

2785
01:40:01,189 --> 01:39:58,960
um might be something that we should try

2786
01:40:02,950 --> 01:40:01,199
to focus a little bit more on

2787
01:40:04,950 --> 01:40:02,960
in the future rather than just going

2788
01:40:06,950 --> 01:40:04,960
back and forth with uh

2789
01:40:09,590 --> 01:40:06,960
dueling videos

2790
01:40:12,070 --> 01:40:09,600
exactly well i mean i appreciate you

2791
01:40:14,550 --> 01:40:12,080
having this discussion with me today and

2792
01:40:16,470 --> 01:40:14,560
um last question of course where can we

2793
01:40:18,550 --> 01:40:16,480
find everything you're up to uh your

2794
01:40:20,310 --> 01:40:18,560
book and um yeah everything in between

2795
01:40:23,109 --> 01:40:20,320
where can we find that

2796
01:40:24,629 --> 01:40:23,119
well you can just go to twitter mcwest

2797
01:40:26,310 --> 01:40:24,639
down there

2798
01:40:28,070 --> 01:40:26,320
and uh

2799
01:40:29,270 --> 01:40:28,080
uh that's pretty much will lead you to

2800
01:40:30,950 --> 01:40:29,280
anything you want so you can go to

2801
01:40:33,030 --> 01:40:30,960
mickwest.com and he has a long list of

2802
01:40:34,870 --> 01:40:33,040
my other stuff as well and my book is

2803
01:40:36,950 --> 01:40:34,880
called escaping the rabbit hole if you

2804
01:40:38,709 --> 01:40:36,960
want to try to talk to your friends who

2805
01:40:40,149 --> 01:40:38,719
are stuck in conspiracy theories this is

2806
01:40:41,990 --> 01:40:40,159
uh the book that tells you how to do it

2807
01:40:44,070 --> 01:40:42,000
or one of several books

2808
01:40:46,310 --> 01:40:44,080
uh uh but you know you can just find me

2809
01:40:48,229 --> 01:40:46,320
on on google mic west there's not very

2810
01:40:50,550 --> 01:40:48,239
many others

2811
01:40:52,390 --> 01:40:50,560
good yeah and i know a few friends and

2812
01:40:54,310 --> 01:40:52,400
family who could probably uh learn a lot

2813
01:40:56,550 --> 01:40:54,320
from your book so i'm gonna definitely

2814
01:40:58,149 --> 01:40:56,560
make sure they check that out but uh

2815
01:40:59,660 --> 01:40:58,159
mick thank you thank you so much for